From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Tue Jun 08 2004 - 04:27:14 BST
On 7 Jun 2004 at 17:49, johnny moral wrote:
Let's digress into the morality of polling, a subject that interests
me greatly. I've long championed the original and still to my mind
correct definition of morality as being "whatever most people do".
As in "the mores" of a society. ... There's usually no conflict
between what we think is good and what is moral, though these days a
cynicism pervades which regularly insists that most people would not
do what is good, an attitude which in itself is a contributing factor
to a lowered standard of ethical behavior.
msh asks:
So, IYO, this cynicism, if it exists, is unwarranted, even self-
contradictory, given your definition of morality. Do you think this
is Pirsig's sense of morality, as developed in Lila?
jm:
How this relates to polling is very interesting, because in reality,
what we feel is moral is not necessarily an accurate sampling of what
most people do, but is only what we think most people do. Our
standards of morality are usually a notch or two above what actually
happens, because we usually never hear about unethical behavior. It
used to be that if a student cheated, he kept it to himself. Now,
because of the prevelance of polling, we all "know" that 90% of
students cheat, or whatevr the number is. If we think most people
cheat, then we think it is moral, it is the expected behavior, and we
are MUCH more likely to cheat ourselves. The ethics and good are
subjective, after all, what matters is fitting in and doing what is
expected, not being an ethical fool.
msh asks:
Then what ethical judgment is in play for the few who would not
cheat, even if they know that 90% do? In other words, who's this
"we", and what makes the others different?
jm:
This polling-pushing-immoral-behavior phenomenon also is responsible
for todays sexual attitudes, a la Kinsey's (flawed) "sex studies" of
the fifties, which ushered in a new morality of sexual behavior.
Even if they weren't flawed, they would have had a similar effect
over time, because the very nature of anonymous polling pretty much
breaks the mechanism of maintaining morality. People aren't supposed
to admit to immoral behavior, but these days there is exactly the
opposite exhortation - people are encouraged to be "honest" and admit
to all their transgressions, on Jerry Springer and in newspapers.
People do have a need to confess their sins, but there was a reason
that sins were confessed only to the priest in private, and the
priest did not reveal them to the whole congregation.
msh asks:
What is this reason?
jm:
To digress even further, this is exactly what is "liberal" about the
media. By its very nature, the media only reports the "news", the
transgressions, the anomolies, the titilating, and the interesting.
A truly 'conservative" media would not report the news at all, the
television shows would be very boring, showing characters going about
their public-faced lives, not admitting to any affairs or ethical
lapses on camera.
msh says:
Of couse no one uses the terms "liberal" and "conservative" in this
way in regards to the media, except you, here. What purpose is
served my changing the meanings of these words? And do you see any
connection between profit-maximization in the commercial media and
what they offer for public consumption?
jm:
Putting "DQ" on a pedestal and excoriating existing patterns of
course is also immoral, though those here who believe that DQ is the
source of morality and all that is good will of course object. And
they aren't immoral in being totally wrong about that, btw, most
people believe that "moral" is something that only a few enlightened
people understand.
msh asks:
So, by your own definition of morality, the moral thing to believe is
that only a few enlightened people understand morality?
Thanks for any thoughtful answers to my questions.
Best,
msh
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