From: Exxon Valdez (exonvaldezz@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Jun 19 2004 - 15:10:58 BST
Mr Vogel
>>I am not quite sure about your own "reasoning" or "logic", here?
>>
>>You had said that:
>>
>>All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>>>>
>>>>Therefore one can´t claim that different "races" or "stocks" have
>>>>different characters but that these characters are of equal value.
>>
>>
>>What does this really mean, Vito?
Maybe I didn´t make my self clear. I apologize if so. My written English is
rather limited. (For social an d not for genetic reasons: English isn´t my
mother tongue).
I should have said:
"All categorisations or classifications are valued.
Therefore one can´t claim that there are different "races" or "stocks" and
that these "races" or "stocks" have different characters AND STILL CLAIM
THAT these characters are of equal value."
We are all of the human race. Different nations, cultures and ethnic or
racial identifications are socially rather than genetically constructed and
there are definetly no "pure" or essentially unique nations, cultures or
identities. They have allways been interconnected and forever breaking up
and differentiated rather than isolated and ahistoric.
I´m sorry to say that you (your believes and your identifications) Mr Vogel
are also a bastard created by hybridization or creolization.
>>Also, you then do make the very bold claim that:
>>
>>>>I also like to point out that there are absolutely no reliable
>>>>scientific research that supports the idea of different racial
>>>>characters.
Well, Mark Steven Heyman have already argued, in an exemplary manner, that
your´s and Platt Holden´s so called scientific proves of racial differences
are slanted and that you are racists per the dictionary definition.
Your racist propaganda is disgusting. I think that Mark allready mentioned
that Eugenics, the ideology that your organization is inspired by, also
inspired and legitmized Hitlers actions.
>>...During the early part of the 20th century, the idea of racial
>>superiority was given scientific >>credibility through a field called
>>eugenics ( u JEN iks). The "science" of eugenics aimed to prove >>that
>>some people were genetically superior to others, and Hitler, among others,
>>used the >>research to justify his actions. The false science of eugenics
>>grew out of earlier research, that, >>like the book "Types of Mankind",
>>used skull measurements and other "proof" to demonstrate >>that Africans
>>were more closely related to primates. These theories of racial
>>superiority have >>since been disproved...
>>http://www.un.org/Pubs/CyberSchoolBus/discrim/race_b_bur_print.asp
>>...American eugenic crusades proliferated into a worldwide campaign, and
>>in the 1920s came to >>the attention of Adolf Hitler. Under the Nazis,
>>American eugenic principles were applied without >>restraint, careening
>>out of control into the Reich's infamous genocide. During the pre-War
>>years, >>American eugenicists openly supported Germany's program. The
>>Rockefeller Foundation financed >>the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and the
>>work of its central racial scientists. Once WWII began, Nazi >>eugenics
>>turned from mass sterilization and euthanasia to genocidal murder. One of
>>the Kaiser >>Wilhelm Institute doctors in the program financed by the
>>Rockefeller Foundation was Josef >>Mengele who continued his research in
>>Auschwitz, making daily eugenic reports on twins. After >>the world
>>recoiled from Nazi atrocities, the American eugenics movement — its
>>institutions and >>leading scientists — renamed and regrouped under the
>>banner of an enlightened science called >>human genetics...
>>http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/
It´s important to think about the historic context from where a theory grow.
Who´s interests does it serve? Race biology and racism clearly served
Hitlers as well as US elites interests.
Modern racism and the valued binary oppositions of the modernity (e.g.,
we/them, white/black, civilized/barbaric, masculine/feminine,
modern/archaic) were cemented during the colonial era in order to legitimize
asymmetric powerstructures, the colonization, the slavery and slaughters of
native americans etc. These valued binary oppositions are still vital parts
in contemporary discourses.
Vito Jesper Karlsson
>From: "Paul Vogel" <nitzke@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>CC: nitzke@hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism: Questions and Answers
>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:54:31 +0000
>
>Dear Vito,
>
>I am not quite sure about your own "reasoning" or "logic", here?
>
>You had said that:
>
>All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>>
>>Therefore one can´t claim that different "races" or "stocks" have
>>different characters but that these characters are of equal value.
>
>
>What does this really mean, Vito?
>
>Also, you then do make the very bold claim that:
>
>I also like to point out that there are absolutely no reliable
>>scientific research that supports the idea of different racial characters.
>
>Then again, what absolutely reliable scientific research
>actually supports the idea of any "equal racial characters"?
>
>Curious.
>
>Such very bold claims do require equally very bold
>and confirming and supporting and factual evidence, no?
>
>Certainly, the historical evidence, at the very least,
>does not support any such very bold claim of any
>"equal racial characters"?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Paul Vogel
>http://www.cosmotheism.net
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Exxon Valdez" <exonvaldezz@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism: Questions and Answers
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:25:42 +0200
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>>>... In Cosmotheism, are the "unique respective stocks" of Ronald Reagan
>>and Ray Charles equal in value? ... - msh
>>
>>
>>All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>>
>>Therefore one can´t claim that different "races" or "stocks" have
>>different characters but that these characters are of equal value.
>>
>>I also like to point out that there are absolutely no reliable scientific
>>research that supports the idea of different racial characters.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Vito
>>
>>>From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism: Questions and Answers
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:22:13 -0700
>>>
>>>In Cosmotheism, are the "unique respective stocks" of Ronald Reagan
>>>and Ray Charles equal in value?
>>>
>>>msh
>>>--
>>>InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
>>>Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
>>>Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
>>>
>>>"Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
>>>everything." -- Henri Poincare'
>>>
>>>
>>>On 15 Jun 2004 at 15:22, Paul Vogel wrote:
>>>
>>> >From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>>> >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>> >To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>> >Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism
>>> >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:31:34 -0700
>>> >
>>> >Oops...
>>> >
>>> >I think I've found the answer re Cosmotheism's value ranking of men.
>>> >This three passages are form the second Holy Book, called "On
>>>Living
>>> >Things."
>>> >
>>> >4:1
>>> >Thus are men ranked in value: First in value are those with Divine
>>> >Consciousness; they are those who walk the Path of Life with sure
>>> >foresight; they are those who have crossed the threshold from man to
>>> >higher man; they are those who serve the Creator's Purpose in full
>>> >consciousness that they are of the Creator and in full knowledge of
>>> >the way in which they serve; they are the Awakened Ones.
>>> >
>>> >[msh says:
>>> >So the Awakened Ones are of the highest value.]
>>>
>>>Exactly. :D
>>>
>>> >
>>> >4:2
>>> >Next in value are those of goodwill and awakening consciousness;
>>>they
>>> >are those who strive for Divine Consciousness; they are those of the
>>> >Cosmotheist Community.
>>>
>>>Yes. :D
>>> >
>>> >[msh says:
>>> >Next come others in the "Community" who haven't quite awakened.]
>>> >
>>> >4:3
>>> >After them are all those of the stock from which the Awakened Ones
>>> >arise, those of the same race-soul; for they collectively, are the
>>> >reservoir in which higher man has his origin and from which he draws
>>> >his replacements.
>>> >
>>> >msh says:
>>> >Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
>>>What race-soul do you suppose is
>>> >the "stock from which the Awakened Ones arise?"
>>>
>>>Every "stock" has a "race-soul" from which the Awakened Ones can
>>>arise. It is the duty of every "stock" to cultivate their own
>>>"race-soul" from which the Awakened Ones can arise. > >Was Ronald
>>>Reagan of that stock? How about Ray Charles?
>>>
>>>Yes, each was a member of their own unique respective "stocks",
>>>and each had a corresponding duty to cultivate their own unique
>>>and respective "race-souls" from which the Awakened Ones can arise. >
>>> >Comments, MOQers? > >Thanks, >Mark Steven Heyman (msh) > >--
>>> >InfoPro
>>>Consulting - The Professional Information Processors >Custom Software
>>>Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 >Web Site:
>>>http://www.infoproconsulting.com > > >"Thought is only a flash
>>>between
>>>two long nights, but this flash is >everything." -- Henri Poincare'
>>> >
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