From: Paul Vogel (nitzke@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Jun 21 2004 - 20:26:33 BST
>From: "Exxon Valdez" <exonvaldezz@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: MD MOQ and Human Variation
>Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 16:10:58 +0200
>
>Mr Vogel
>
>>>I am not quite sure about your own "reasoning" or "logic", here?
>>>
>>>You had said that:
>>>
>>>All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>>>>>
>>>>>Therefore one canīt claim that different "races" or "stocks" have
>>>>>different characters but that these characters are of equal value.
>>>
>>>
>>>What does this really mean, Vito?
>
>
>Maybe I didnīt make my self clear. I apologize if so. My written English is
>rather limited. (For social an d not for genetic reasons: English isnīt my
>mother tongue).
Fair enough. Try again, Vito. :D
>
>I should have said:
>
>"All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>
>Therefore one canīt claim that there are different "races" or "stocks" and
>that these "races" or "stocks" have different characters AND STILL CLAIM
>THAT these characters are of equal value."
I agree, they aren't of EQUAL VALUE,
and I never claiimed that they were,
and most especially,
relative to the internal URGE towards
the SELF-REALIZATION
of the COSMOS, itself, in GODHOOD.
>
>We are all of the human race.
No. We are all of the HUMAN SPECIES.
However, we are not all of the same
"Race" or "Stock" or "Sub-Species", whatsoever.
Different nations, cultures and ethnic
>or racial identifications are socially rather than genetically constructed
>and there are definetly no "pure" or essentially unique nations, cultures
>or identities.
On the contrary, these are all both genetically and socially constructed
and they all are all unique identities that should be preserved to ensure
both biological and cultural diversity.
They have allways been
>interconnected and forever breaking up and differentiated rather than
>isolated and ahistoric.
Again, the historical and scientific facts just do not support your false
contentions.
The isolation over time to create racial differentiation happened many times
over.
>
>Iīm sorry to say that you (your believes and your identifications) Mr Vogel
>are also a bastard created by hybridization or creolization.
Not exactly.
You are just making many false assumptions and presumptions that are
factually unsupported.
>
>>>Also, you then do make the very bold claim that:
>>>
>>>>>I also like to point out that there are absolutely no reliable
>>>>>scientific research that supports the idea of different racial
>>>>>characters.
>
>Well, Mark Steven Heyman have already argued, in an exemplary manner, that
>yourīs and Platt Holdenīs so called scientific proves of racial differences
>are slanted and that you are racists per the dictionary definition.
If you consider those arguements "exemplary" examples of reasoning
and logic, there is not much anyone can do to help you out of your
delusions and misconceptions. Neither Platt nor myself, nor any of those
brave and honest scientists that Mark Steven Heyman had slandered with
his AAA article of ad hominem social-marxist propaganda and nonsense are
"racists". No scientific truths or facts are "racist". Your logic and
reasoning
really do leave very much to be desired, regardless of your mother tongue.
>
>Your racist propaganda is disgusting. I think that Mark allready mentioned
>that Eugenics, the ideology that your organization is inspired by, also
>inspired and legitmized Hitlers actions.
I don't have any "racist" propaganda to be "disgusting", whatsoever.
There is nothing wrong with the idea of Eugenics,
as even the Israeli's had adopted many of the same
techniques and programs, and the fact is the USA was
where it had actually originated and NOT in GERMANY.
You have only just been "brain-washed" with "social-marxist"
propaganda and dogmatism!
>
>>>...During the early part of the 20th century, the idea of racial
>>>superiority was given scientific >>credibility through a field called
>>>eugenics ( u JEN iks). The "science" of eugenics aimed to prove >>that
>>>some people were genetically superior to others, and Hitler, among
>>>others, used the >>research to justify his actions.
Any political abuse of the ideas and ideals of the science of eugenics
really has nothing to do with the merits of its true benefits to society.
>>>The false science of eugenics grew out of earlier research, that, >>like
>>>the book "Types of Mankind", used skull measurements and other "proof" to
>>>demonstrate >>that Africans were more closely related to primates. These
>>>theories of racial superiority have >>since been disproved...
>>>http://www.un.org/Pubs/CyberSchoolBus/discrim/race_b_bur_print.asp
Again, you just are mistaken.
Newer scientific research has validated much of what had
previously been denied by the "social-marxists".
>
>>>...American eugenic crusades proliferated into a worldwide campaign, and
>>>in the 1920s came to >>the attention of Adolf Hitler. Under the Nazis,
>>>American eugenic principles were applied without >>restraint, careening
>>>out of control into the Reich's infamous genocide. During the pre-War
>>>years, >>American eugenicists openly supported Germany's program. The
>>>Rockefeller Foundation financed >>the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute and the
>>>work of its central racial scientists. Once WWII began, Nazi >>eugenics
>>>turned from mass sterilization and euthanasia to genocidal murder. One of
>>>the Kaiser >>Wilhelm Institute doctors in the program financed by the
>>>Rockefeller Foundation was Josef >>Mengele who continued his research in
>>>Auschwitz, making daily eugenic reports on twins. After >>the world
>>>recoiled from Nazi atrocities, the American eugenics movement its
>>>institutions and >>leading scientists renamed and regrouped under the
>>>banner of an enlightened science called >>human genetics...
>>>http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/
ALL just pure social-marxist one-sided war propaganda and nonsense!
>
>Itīs important to think about the historic context from where a theory
>grow. Whoīs interests does it serve? Race biology and racism clearly served
>Hitlers as well as US elites interests.
Apparently, not in the existing US elites interests now, huh?
Any guess as to why?
>
>Modern racism and the valued binary oppositions of the modernity (e.g.,
>we/them, white/black, civilized/barbaric, masculine/feminine,
>modern/archaic) were cemented during the colonial era in order to
>legitimize asymmetric powerstructures, the colonization, the slavery and
>slaughters of native americans etc. These valued binary oppositions are
>still vital parts in contemporary discourses.
All just "social-marxist" egalitarian nonsense and propaganda, Vito.
You are just a bit too gullible as to who and whom to believe.
Best regards,
Paul Vogel
http://www.cosmotheism.net
>
>Vito Jesper Karlsson
>
>
>>From: "Paul Vogel" <nitzke@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>CC: nitzke@hotmail.com
>>Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism: Questions and Answers
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:54:31 +0000
>>
>>Dear Vito,
>>
>>I am not quite sure about your own "reasoning" or "logic", here?
>>
>>You had said that:
>>
>>All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>>>
>>>Therefore one canīt claim that different "races" or "stocks" have
>>>different characters but that these characters are of equal value.
>>
>>
>>What does this really mean, Vito?
>>
>>Also, you then do make the very bold claim that:
>>
>>I also like to point out that there are absolutely no reliable
>>>scientific research that supports the idea of different racial
>>>characters.
>>
>>Then again, what absolutely reliable scientific research
>>actually supports the idea of any "equal racial characters"?
>>
>>Curious.
>>
>>Such very bold claims do require equally very bold
>>and confirming and supporting and factual evidence, no?
>>
>>Certainly, the historical evidence, at the very least,
>>does not support any such very bold claim of any
>>"equal racial characters"?
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Paul Vogel
>>http://www.cosmotheism.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Exxon Valdez" <exonvaldezz@hotmail.com>
>>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism: Questions and Answers
>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:25:42 +0200
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>... In Cosmotheism, are the "unique respective stocks" of Ronald Reagan
>>>and Ray Charles equal in value? ... - msh
>>>
>>>
>>>All categorisations or classifications are valued.
>>>
>>>Therefore one canīt claim that different "races" or "stocks" have
>>>different characters but that these characters are of equal value.
>>>
>>>I also like to point out that there are absolutely no reliable scientific
>>>research that supports the idea of different racial characters.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>Vito
>>>
>>>>From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>>>>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>>Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism: Questions and Answers
>>>>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:22:13 -0700
>>>>
>>>>In Cosmotheism, are the "unique respective stocks" of Ronald Reagan
>>>>and Ray Charles equal in value?
>>>>
>>>>msh
>>>>--
>>>>InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
>>>>Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
>>>>Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
>>>>
>>>>"Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
>>>>everything." -- Henri Poincare'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 15 Jun 2004 at 15:22, Paul Vogel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>>>> >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>> >To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>>>> >Subject: Re: MD Cosmotheism
>>>> >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:31:34 -0700
>>>> >
>>>> >Oops...
>>>> >
>>>> >I think I've found the answer re Cosmotheism's value ranking of men.
>>>> >This three passages are form the second Holy Book, called "On
>>>>Living
>>>> >Things."
>>>> >
>>>> >4:1
>>>> >Thus are men ranked in value: First in value are those with Divine
>>>> >Consciousness; they are those who walk the Path of Life with sure
>>>> >foresight; they are those who have crossed the threshold from man to
>>>> >higher man; they are those who serve the Creator's Purpose in full
>>>> >consciousness that they are of the Creator and in full knowledge of
>>>> >the way in which they serve; they are the Awakened Ones.
>>>> >
>>>> >[msh says:
>>>> >So the Awakened Ones are of the highest value.]
>>>>
>>>>Exactly. :D
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >4:2
>>>> >Next in value are those of goodwill and awakening consciousness;
>>>>they
>>>> >are those who strive for Divine Consciousness; they are those of the
>>>> >Cosmotheist Community.
>>>>
>>>>Yes. :D
>>>> >
>>>> >[msh says:
>>>> >Next come others in the "Community" who haven't quite awakened.]
>>>> >
>>>> >4:3
>>>> >After them are all those of the stock from which the Awakened Ones
>>>> >arise, those of the same race-soul; for they collectively, are the
>>>> >reservoir in which higher man has his origin and from which he draws
>>>> >his replacements.
>>>> >
>>>> >msh says:
>>>> >Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
>>>>What race-soul do you suppose is
>>>> >the "stock from which the Awakened Ones arise?"
>>>>
>>>>Every "stock" has a "race-soul" from which the Awakened Ones can
>>>>arise. It is the duty of every "stock" to cultivate their own
>>>>"race-soul" from which the Awakened Ones can arise. > >Was Ronald
>>>>Reagan of that stock? How about Ray Charles?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, each was a member of their own unique respective "stocks",
>>>>and each had a corresponding duty to cultivate their own unique
>>>>and respective "race-souls" from which the Awakened Ones can arise. >
>>>> >Comments, MOQers? > >Thanks, >Mark Steven Heyman (msh) > >--
>>>> >InfoPro
>>>>Consulting - The Professional Information Processors >Custom Software
>>>>Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983 >Web Site:
>>>>http://www.infoproconsulting.com > > >"Thought is only a flash
>>>>between
>>>>two long nights, but this flash is >everything." -- Henri Poincare'
>>>> >
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