From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Jul 26 2004 - 01:17:55 BST
Mark and all MOQers:
-----Original Message-----
From: Valuemetaphysics:
These quotes may support coherence, (additions by me):
177 "Intuition sometimes is an equivalent of Dynamic Quality. However, its
also a kind of biological instinct. Since Western philosophy confuses these
two, the MOQ avoids the term."
Intuition has been suggested to be intellectual coherence between a
repertoire of sq intellectual patterns. Thus, replacing coherence at the
intellectual level for intuition avoids problems.
[David Buchanan]
If Pirsig is saying intuition is sometimes biological and sometimes Dynamic,
and he certainly is, then your assertion that intuition is "intellectual
coherence" is obviously quite off the mark, Mark.
180 "The MOQ supports both conservatism and liberalism at the same time.
Freedom and order are contradictory but both are necessary at the same
time."
Coherence is the optimum state between DQ and sq.
[David Buchanan] Coherence seems to be whatever strikes your fancy at the
moment. Its the word with a thousand definitions, which effectively renders
it meaningless.
198 "Zen argues that it is through stillness, not action, that a man can
realize himself, in the sense of actualizing his potentialities and
developing his personality towards the ideal state of harmonious integraton
of his powers."
The sweet spot or coherence in what is traditionally called, 'activity'
(sport, engineering, art, logic, etc.) is that point where the 'thing' doing
the 'activity' is DQ. For example, riding at the sweet spot it is a state in
which distinctions between rider and thing rode disappear; where does the
rider begin and where does he/she end? Where does the bike begin and where
does it end? Stillness - coherence.
[David Buchanan]
Activity is coherence and coherence is stillness, so activity is stillness?
Oh my god, are you alright? You're bending over so far backwards to make it
fit, that I'm worried that you've slipped a disk or snapped your spine in
two. I think the quote makes it pretty clear that Pirsig idea about "the
ideal state of harmonious integration" is approximately the opposite of what
you've been saying. For you its about doing, for Zen and Pirsig its about
NOT doing.
210 "The MOQ says there is an ultimate unity but the interrelation of
subject and object does not reveal it."
Coherence, the interrelation of DQ and sq, or better said, sq-sq tension
attempts to convey instances of unity.
[David Buchanan]
Again, Pirsig is saying the opposite. He's saying unity cannot be found in
the interrealtion of the parts. Its no good to try to weasel out of it by
switching sq-sq tension for s-o tension. It still expresses an idea that
Pirsig explicitly rejects in this quote.
If faith is having a belief in the face of evidence to the contrary, Mark
has tremendous faith in the validity of his ideas about coherence.
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