From: Dan Glover (daneglover@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jul 30 2004 - 07:20:27 BST
Hello everyone
>From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: RE: MD the metaphysics of free-enterprise
>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 10:54:02 -0700
>
>Hi all,
>
>Been sick for a while, so haven't written. But I've been reading
>along, and enjoying.
Hi Mark
It's good to see you back. I hope you're feeling better.
>
>
>Platt quotes Pirsig:
>No. "And beyond that is an even more compelling reason; societies and
>thoughts and principles themselves are no more than sets of static
>patterns. These patterns can't by themselves perceive or adjust to
>Dynamic Quality. Only a living being can do that." (Lila, 13)
>
>msh asks anyone:
>Then how did the bio level arise out of the inorganic? Wasn't this
>in response to DQ? If not, then DQ can't be the ontological ONE, and
>the MOQ goes out the window, no?
Robert Pirsig answers your question in the original LILA'S CHILD manuscript
but not in the print book. I'm sorry to say that there was a problem using
certain quotes from the old LS archives so the quote I offer here never made
it into print. From the original manuscript:
A contributor writes:
"Pirsig does say that biological beings are the only ones that have a sense
of value."
Robert Pirsig's annotation: "If I had known in advance that this argument
was coming up I would have said an 'intellectual' sense of value."
A contributor writes:
"In Anders’ quote [the same quote Platt offers] that is implied and in SODV
he says: “The Metaphysics of Quality follows the empirical tradition here in
saying that the senses are the starting point of reality, but—all
importantly—it includes a sense of value.”
But then he also says that inorganic patterns can perceive Dynamic Quality
(end of Chapter Twelve): “When inorganic patterns of reality create life the
Metaphysics of Quality postulates that they’ve done so because it’s ‘better’
and this definition of ‘betterness’—this beginning response to Dynamic
Quality—is an elementary unit of ethics upon which all right and wrong can
be based.”
Sounds like Pirsig has contradicted himself. If the sense of value resides
at the biological level and only living beings can
perceive Dynamic Quality, how did the inorganic patterns ever evolve into
biological ones?"
Robert Pirsig's annotation: "If I had known in advance that this argument
was coming up I would have said an 'inorganic sense of value.' It is
emphasized in Lila that inorganic values and intellectual values are
different."
Dan comments:
In Anders' and Platt's LILA quote it's stated that societies and thoughts,
etc. "can't by themselves perceive or adjust to Dynamic Quality." A living
being is composed of four static levels. Inorganic and biological patterns
of value can be detected with scientific instruments. Social and
intellectual patterns of value cannot. It seems to me that inorganic and
biological patterns of value can perceive and adjust to Dynamic Quality
whereas social and intellectual patterns of value have nothing in common
with the lower levels except evolutionary history. Those patterns do not
exist in a state that can perceive and adjust to Dynamic Quality by
themselves. They have to rely on the support of inorganic and biological
levels.
Thank you for your comments,
Dan
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