JC:
I can either choose to believe I have free will or I can choose to believe
I don't have free will. Choice seems so simple and obvious that I have
never really thought about debating the issue. How can you fail to see the
paradox in choosing non-choice? Thus, we HAVE to have choice. We've got
no choice in the matter. :-)
STRUAN
>Methinks you misunderstand. You can choose whether to BELIEVE in free will
>or not, but that makes not one jot of difference to whether you ACTUALLY
>have it. You cannot choose whether you actually have it. You either do
>have it or you do not.
JC
What I was trying to portray was the inherent contradiction of BELIEVING I
don't have free will, whether or not I have it. Thus I have no choice but
to believe that I do actually have free will.
However, your answer uncovers a great deal of turf. I see a full mailbox
ahead of me and am going to withold sending this till I've read all that
has been discussed.
STRUAN
Consider a man in a room with a locked door. He does not know that the door
is locked. The man believes that he can choose whether to leave the room or
not and decides not to leave, believing that he has, of his own free will,
made the decision.
JC
He has actually made the decision.
STRUAN
But the reality of the situation is that the decision was never his.
JC
Whose was it then? Is there not some conscious mind that put him in his
room? Thus even the thwart of free will proves the existence of free
will.
I'm not arguing the ability of the will to prevail over all circumstance,
although I believe in that also, but the very existence of the freedom of
will. There actually is a mind that is able to make choices of good and
bad in EVERY situation. To such a mind, no door remains locked for long.
STRUAN
He is staying in the room and that is that. Your paradox is therefore a
false one because you conflate belief and reality.
JC
Well I admit I'm ignorant of the word "conflate" and too damn lazy to look
it up even, but if it means what I think you mean, you're darn tootin'.
Can you point to any reality that is not of your belief? Then I'll listen
to this argument. But till then, we are stuck with the higher realization
that SOM don't work. It's not merely an opinion of an author, it's the
collective wisdom of a generation that has evolved intellectually in the
light of quantonic realizations. You can't seperate your 'concept' of
reality from your concept of 'reality'.
Reality = Objects, Belief = Subjects. SOM is RBM and if you're coming from
that perspective, none of this is going to make sense.
STRUAN
Free will = consciousness is another misconception. If I nail your hands
and feet to the floor you cannot choose to get up and yet you are still
conscious, therefore they cannot be synonymous.
JC
MEthinks that you are confusing freedom of will, with freedom of movement.
BIG DIFFERENCE. Intellect cannot be constrained with doors or nails.
Thanks for the dialogue, tho. It was interesting.
jc
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