> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Buchanan
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 11:13 PM
> To: 'moq-discuss@moq.org'
> Subject: Unconstructed Wilber quotes
>
> Roger, Rich, John B and Ya'll:
>
> The following is pure Ken Wilber, mostly. I wonder if anyone sees it as a
> clarification of the static/Dynamic split, an alternative explanation for
> the same idea. And I wonder if Roger sees how it might relate to our
> "measure of truth" debate. I wonder if anyone thinks KEN WILBER ROCKS.
> (Other than me and Rich)
>
>
> (page 233) "The problem (of Subject/object dualism) is not solved, but
> rather dissolved, in the primoridal state, which otherwise LEAVES THE
> DUALISMS JUST AS THEY ARE, possessing a certain conventional or relative
> reality, real enough in their own domains, but not absolute." (I added
> the parenthetical info, but the emphasis is Wilber's.)
>
> (page 236) "Non-duality doesn't reject dualism on its own level. That
> would miss the point completely. These dualisms - between subject and
> object, inside and outside, Left and Right - will still arise, and they
> are SUPPOSED to arise. Those dualities are the very mechanism of
> manifestation. Spirit - the pure immediate suchness of reality (DQ) -
> manifests as subject and object, (sQ) and in both singular and plural
> forms - in other words, Spirit manifests as all four quadrant. (at all
> four levels) And we aren't supposed to wimply evaporate those quadrants -
> they are the radian glory of Spirit's manifestation... But we are supposed
> to see through them..."
>
> (page 232)
> THE IMMEDIACY OF PURE PRESENCE
> "Russell talks about this (non-duality) in the last chapters of his great
> book, A HISTORY OF WESTERN PHILOSOPHY, where he discusses William James's
> notion of "radical empiricism." Now we have to be very careful with these
> terms, because "epirisism" doesn't mean just sensory experience, it means
> experience itself, in any domain. It means immediate prehension, immediate
> experience, immediate awareness. And William James set out to demonstrate
> that this pure nondual immediate-ness is the "basic stuff" of reality, so
> to speak, and that both subject and object, mind and body, inside and
> outside, are all derivative or secondary. They come later, they come after
> the primacy of immediateness, which is the ultimate reality, as it were."
>
> "And Russel is quite right to credit James with being the first
> "mainstream" or "accepted" philosopher to advance this nondual position.
> Of course, virtually all of the mystical or contemplative sages had been
> saying this for a few millennia, but James to his eternal credit brought
> it crashing into the mainstream...aand conviced Russell in the process."
> (page 233)
>
> "Small wonder that D.T. Suzuki, the great Zen scholar, said that James's
> radical empiricism was as close as the West had gotten to "no-mind" or
> Emptiness. That's perhaps too strong, but you get the point. Russel had a
> rather thin understanding of the fact that the great contemplative
> philosopher-sages - from Plotinus to Augustine to Eckhart to Schelling to
> Schopenhauer to Emerson - had already solved or dissolved this
> subject/object duality." (page 233-4)
>
> "He (Russell) doesn't have a clue where this nondual state will actuall
> lead." (235)
>
> "Even James doesn't penetrate into this primordial state with much
> profundity, and so his radical empiricism degenerated very rapidly into
> sensory phenomenalism, which collapses into Right Hand empiricism
> (objectivity) and pragmatism - an extremely disappointing development,
> American to the core. Although this certainly doesn't detract from the
> amazing first steps that he took."
>
> "This is pure FORM-LESS MYSTICISM - all objects, even God as a perceived
> form, vanish into cessation, and so deity mysticism gives way to formless
> mysticism. Because all possible objects have NOT YET ARISEN, this is a
> completely UNMANIFEST state of pure Emptiness. What you actually "see" in
> this state is infinite nothing, which simply means that it is too Full to
> be contained in any object or any subject or any sight or any sound. It is
> pure consciousness, pure awareness, prior to any manifestation at all -
> prior to subjects and objects, prior to phenomena, prior to holons,
> (static patterns) prior to things, prior to anything. It is utterly
> timeless, spaceless, objectless." (225)
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