Roger,
People with bad ideas are not bad people !
Are people with genes- defects bad people ?
Can we treat people with genes- defects like dirt ? Will we ever !?
Presumably we will, due to the fact that than the knowledge how memes
work will have been spread. Nowadays we do the same thing with genes,
employers, assurance- companies want to know if you will have diseases
and at which age you will die from cancer. We can 't deny that fact.
That is why, the ethical implications of memetics have yet to be solved,
and the issue of free will/ determinism will be in the middle of the debate.
In a sense, when the technologies are available they will ask you to do
something about your genetic and memetic defects.
In my opinion, if you don 't believe that, you are naive...sorry.
But is there really a free will ? If we take the meme- eye view we can
easily
conclude there is none. But, like Blackmore said, the Self, the little Me is
a co- adapted meme complexe. And nothing in the world can change the
view which people have about themselves. If they believe they have a free
will well they have. If people believe their memes do all the driving, well
that is their believe.
But on one point we can conjure, and that is that we all have an illusion
of free will. There is nothing wrong with that view, only when it comes to
the ethical implications, that is to convert scientific findings into laws,
rules,
regulations etc you gonna ran into trouble.
> From: Roger
>
> KENNETH WROTE:
> Most investigations into the psychological problems of people come down
> to the model of disease, there is something wrong WITH YOU !!
> With the meme- approach and especially with the Meme- Meme- View,
> you come to a very different conclusion.
> That is, that people are not in control of themselves, their memes are.
> So, in the case of a murderer, it is not his fault but his memes did it
for
> him. Of course, in a case like this, there is nobody to point at as who
really
> did the murder, so he walks free.
> Don 't be surprised, in the USA, there is already an existing case where
> a murderer did walked free because his defence- laywer could proove
> that the man has a genetic defect.
> So, in my view the next step will be that the man 's defect-memes will act
> as a defence- strategy.
>
> ROGER REPLIES:
> This issue seems to be a memetic version of the free will / deteminism
issue.
> Which some of us at this website have reached a consensus on (IMO a good
> one.)
> The memetic defense "my memes did it not me" is, as you allude in your
post,
> ridiculous. Common sense recognizes it as such. Only dogmatic dualists
(ie
> many western philosophers and pseudo-intellectuals) would fall for such an
> absurd interpretation.
<< Common sense is not always " common sense ". Like I said earlier,
I have always doubts when something comes down to the collective/ indi-
vidual issue, like now.
In cases like I mentioned above, you have to account for the factor, the
notion of mitigating circumstances, righteousness, compassion and above
all the public opinion. As you know, I suppose, the public opinion is not
always " right ", they think they have it right. People are not stupid, if
they
see a way out, " sorry but my memes did it not me ", they will take that
chance. In Belgium, where I live, we are very good in such things, it is
a national sport to find backdoors in the articles of the law. And I don 't
think we all are dogmatic dualists...maybe we are...Belgium is an absurd
country...
In addition here, the case of OJ Simpson prooves a point here.
Maybe he did or did not murder his former wife and her lover, I don 't
know...but the public opinion found him not guilty. Don 't underestamate
the power of the public. Did their memes did it for them, was there free
will, determination...!?
> PS -- Failure to hold people accountable for their memes is a great way
to
> guarantee that they WILL conveniently divorce themselves from control of
> their thoughts and behaviors. The whole thing really is (as you say) a
> fuzzy, self-amplifying fractal feedback loop.
<< Not as you first explained to them what the risks are of such a behavior.
But than again, the notion of free will/ determinism plays tricks on you.
How would you explain to people what you want, in their own time (free
will) or as a political statement ( determinism) ? In my view, if people
will
have fully understood the impact of memetics in some future they WILL
NOT conveniently divorce themselves from control of their thoughts and
behavior. But maybe I am the one now who is naive...
Many regards,
See you next weekend,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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