----- Original Message -----
From: <RISKYBIZ9@aol.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: MD MEMES -- Are memes with bad people bad memes?
> DAVID:
> I think that the concept of free will is a cop out. By saying a person
> chooses his fate, we divorce ourselves of responsibility for society's
> ills.(Of course, we as a society have no choice. We are still very much
> attached to the free will idea)
> If we viewed people not as isolated entities, but as parts of a system, we
> would see that it is the system that needs changed.
>
> ROG:
> But as parts of the system, it is essential that the individual needs
> changing too. People aren't just products of society, society is also a
> product of people. The first step in empowering people is accountability,
and
> a society of unempowered, unaccountable people would be a very
disfunctional
> society. (Examples of such are fairly common place).
<< See, Roger, here you make a " mistake ", I mention this in my earlier
post, in empowering people you take away their choise to choose for their
own free will of for determinsm.
And a society of unempowered people will be very disfunctional indeed,
but if that is the choise its made...on the other hand, with determinism you
block out free will all together. And in my opinion, knowing that, I don 't
think I should care mush about being empowered or not...Should I know
anyway !?
>
> Let my memes reword your writings....
>
> "I think that the concept of no free will is a cop out. By saying a person
> can't choose his fate, we (society) divorce them of responsibility for
their
> (and society's)
> ills.
<< And why is that !? Only for the interest of the society. If we ever
divorce
people from their own responsiblity society will collapse. Once again the
issue of collective/ individual is raised.
> If we viewed people not as isolated entities, but as parts of a system, we
> would see that both need to be accountable."
>
> But then again, my memes could be wrong...
<< Your memes are not wrong, they just fill in the blanks with notions of
collectiviness, where they should fill in the blanks with notions of
collectivi-
ness AND individuality. We can 't seperate those things, but society
enforces
us to do so.
Many regards,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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