Jonathan,
Re- reading my post and your answers I do come to the conclusion that pre-
sumably you misinterpretated my words due to the fact that I did not explain
the whole bit not very clearly.
Here I go again,
On the memetic list we agreed that memes resides in the brain. But we also
agreed upon the fact that we no longer need the analogy between genes and
memes. Memes are completely different, we have to step away from what
is in biology common knowledge.
If we can agree on that, than we can focus on what memes are_those units
of information passed on by some form of imitation, replication, variation,
selection and evolution between two or more brains.
There are 2 major lines in memetics, the l- meme ( within the mind) and the
g- meme ( between minds).
One said, choise and free will are necessary to human memetic evolution,
otherwise there could be no directed modifacation of l- memes and there
could be no selection between alternative versions created by such modi-
fications (g- memes).
I go so far along with this view till I asked myself the question ' what
are
new memes ' ? I don 't talk here about new ideas, but explicit about NEW
MEMES,complete new forms of Quality ! Ideas are in my book, re-combi-
nations of logical definitions. A complete NEW idea as such can 't be found,
all is some sort of recombination.
Dawkins himself first proposed that memes were internal mental information.
I go along with that view till I reached the question raised above:- what
are
new memes ?
( Here is another division in memetics, the ones who investigate memes as
mental info and others who say that memes are neural info.)
Now, we go, if you wish to EJ Steele 's idea that there is some sort of
' expression site for the gene '....
If, like you said, DNA only operates in the configuration of a living cell,
what
I do believe, and we exclude the possibility that memetic info resides in
DNA,
where is than the memetic info !?
In our brain, like we said. But that is not an answer to our question of
from where memes are coming.
If, life, can be considered to extend outside into the ecosystem/
environment
than we are on the memetic level.
Now, try to follow my reasoning,if you please...
We have genes, DNA, molecules, a/c/g/t , cells, chromosomes,...each with
its own specific design, form and above all FUNCTION. There are genes
for making up the organs, colour of the eyes, how we walk, for our behavior
and for our personal interests.
This we can propagate to our children, no problem there.
Suppose now, that each gene has a ( different)...[different like in what
kind
of community, society you are, in which ideology you will be living, will
you
starve, are you rich etc] memetic expression(s) of what is the gene's
contents.
That would mean that genes and memes will operate indeed within the
context of an overall environment, while themselves contributing to that en-
vironment, but they would NOT operate in the same spatial expression site.
Genes will operate on a material, concrete level, memes on a mental, imma-
terial, unsubstantial level.
Let me give an example,
There is a homosexual- gene found for man. The gene would operate along
its own lines and would give the person involved specific properties, a more
feminine look, a sexual drive towards other man, etc..
But suppose now, that with the gene there is also memetic info avaible, that
is in the case of our homosexual friend, info about how to act, to dress, to
move, to speak, to search for partners...all kinds of info which can 't be
determinated in a genetically way.
I don 't think we will ever find a gene which determines that a fellow
dresses
himself up as a lady. There will be genetic parts found which play a
keyrole,
yes, but I think if we ever will find the full picture, that we have to
search for
memetic info. Info which strengthens up genetic info in order to built up
the
guy 's his personality and identity.
This kind of memetic info, what I should call THE MEMETIC MAXIM is
determinated by then already combined info (genetic and memetic).
That is, info made avaible to him by his parents, and by their parents and
by
their parents,...
The memetic info passed on by his parents, is (partly) acquired deliberately
information, (what would be the criteria by which ' nature ' chooses to
filter out which info becomes the memetic maxim, I do not know) and partly
social,
cultural, political, psychological etc info. For example, how does society
stands against homosexuality, (it is easier to live as a rich homosexual in
a
democracy, than as a poor homosexual bastard under communist rule) .
If now, the memetic maxim ( which is of the parents) is passed on and the
child is born, it has all the characteristics of its parents, genetic like,
species like and memetic like.
Those three things now begin to produce their own specific tasks, genetics
builts the heart, lungs, hair, let the child speak.
Species count for walking, moves...etc
Memetics, upon the memetic maxim, can I say our subconsciousness, as the
very bias of our mental life, new experiences ( by all of our senses) begin
to
produce in our brain new neural connections.
By combining all possible avaible info, genetic, memetic and species- like)
our brain produces our consciousness.
Now our friend, ' aware ' that he likes to play more with dolls than with
cars
will act upon such traits, new experiences add more info upon the very me-
metic maxim and our friend will eventually grow up as a homosexual boy into
a homosexual man.
All people start with such a (than a complete different from all the others)
memetic maxim. We can always look back for genetic inprints, and we will
find them, but we will eventually leave the genes behind and start a fresh
new
way called memetics.
That is in a nutshell (sic) my idea...which was in the beginning a wonderful
thought....
Here you have something biological, but not genetical.
Hope this helps.
By the way, I wonder, don 't I dismiss the true MOQ members of their
search into Pirsig his works with this...?
Many regards,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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