Jonathan, Platt and all,
Hi there, I know Jonathan and Platt called for a time out, but I did not
read
my mail untill today. So, in contrast with them, I will respond, but just in
the
manner of some loose thoughts...
----- Original Message -----
From: Platt Holden <pholden5@earthlink.net>
> PLATT:
> The idea that the way to look at evolution is as movement away
> from mechanisms seems to me a much more challenging and
> interesting idea than extending biological, genetic-like
> mechanisms to explain the social level. As Pirsig points out, the
> social level attempts to exploit, control and dominate the biological
> level, converting "accumulated biological energy into forms
> (human bodies) that serve itself."
>
> PIRSIG:
> In this manner biological man is exploited and devoured by social
> patterns that are essentially hostile to his biological values. (Lila,
> Chap. 21)
>
> PLATT:
> So using memes with their close affinity to genes to explain the
> social level as it's described in the MOQ seems to me a futile
> exercise unless memes can be shown to have their own
> independent self-interests as suggested above and can respond
> to DQ. Pirsig claims only an individual human being can respond
> to DQ, so I doubt if memes can "make things happen." But since
> I've a lot more to learn, my mind remains open on the subject.
> Those memes may get me yet. (-:
So, Platt you doubt if memes can " make things happen " !?
And right you are ! Of course, all comes down to where you see memes
to fit in. That is, if we take the meme- eye view...
Pirsig, [biological man] , a fleshy container which holds in itself the
memes;
a fleshy container constructed by genetic memes to act as a host, as a
machine which propagates memes and constructs machines (inspired by
memes) by which memes will propagate further.
Pirsig, [is exploited and devoured], all due to the nature of the memes,
exploitation is just another way by which memes spread.
Pirsig, [ by social patterns], a meme- plex, same argument here, though,
just a
way in which memes spread.
Pirsig, [ that are essentially hostile to his bilogical value], of course,
remerber,
memes act selfish, have self- interest.
For example, the suicide- meme.
There is no gain in killing of all of the hosts carrying the meme, but that
is
not the ' meme '!!
The meme is the info, the intention of the meme to spread itself_ if there
is a large number of suicides, and the media are reporting about the events
which had let to them, there are likely some others who will be infected by
the meme and commit suicide, that is what is essential to the meme !!
By killing of a few more, she have spread herself...
Those memes will get you anytime...
Regards,
Kenneth
( I am, because we are)
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