Hello everyone
----Original Message Follows----
From: RISKYBIZ9@aol.com
Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD An Introduction to the Metaphysics of Quality
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 08:18:39 EDT
To: Dan , Diana, Jonathan, Elephant and MOQ
FROM: Rog
Sorry Diana, I did not mean to imply that your objection was comparable to
Fintans. It just got me trying to recall the thread and the similar
discussion. I respect your wish to stay out of his book.
I will say that I seriously agree with you that any writing of mine from
prior years is so hopelessly out of date that it would in no way match up
with my current thoughts. Even assuming perfect editing, it would not be
what Roger thinks today, it would be what Roger thought then. On the other
hand, I think that is the intended context that Dan will use in presenting
the material...???
DAN:
Many of the old timers may notice as I have that the same questions keep
coming up over and over again. They don't seem to change much. People
change, sure. We grow and learn from each experience. Personally I think the
objection that LC covers old posts is a symptom of our Western,
throw-it-away culture that is rearing its ugly head. If it is old get rid of
it.
My Dad (now dead) owned an old 1925 Model-T coupe that was original. It
wasn't restored but it ran well and he drove it up and down the hills in
western Tennessee for a lot of years. Everyone told him he should restore it
and make it into a show car. He'd agree with them alright but never did
attempt to restore that old car. It took me a long time to understand why.
The name Lila's Child is representative, in my mind, of the doll Lila finds
floating in the water. It is garbage, without value, until someone picks it
up and cares about it. Value is a funny thing.
Rog:
I also agree with Elephant that Dan should get permission
to use anyone's correspondence. I believe he has gotten everyone's except
Diana's and those that have disappeared. I also agree that Dan should not
use Diana's writing without her approval.
DAN:
When I started the LC project Diana informed me that I would have to write
to anyone involved and get their permission to use their words. Diana was
the very first person I asked and she gave me her (hesitant) approval at
that time. I have already promised Diana, however, that I will not use them
in a print version if that is her wish.
DIANA:
The primary role
an editor plays is in identifying the objectives of a piece of
writing and shaping it to meet those objectives. In the case of
an MOQ book you would be asking questions like
Why does this book need to be written?
Who is the audience?
What message is it sending out?
What is the best format for this message?
How will it be positioned?
ROG:
I was corresponding with Dan at the time he started this project (even
tinkering with the idea of helping him, to be honest), and can attest he had
done much thinking about these issues. In fact, he seemed fairly confident
in his intentions. Granted he may have changed these in scope through the
process of development, and they may still be evolving even now, but I see
this as a normal part of a dynamic creative process.
DAN:
Of course it is. Yes I have given some little thought to Diana's questions
and a whole host of others as well. I've also been tormented by doubt every
day I sat down to work.
DIANA:
Hundreds of people have asked intelligent and relevant
questions about the MOQ, why do they not merit a response?
If we're going to ask Pirsig questions, let's first gather
some consensus on what are the most important things to ask.
Then maybe we could put together a letter spelling out the
things that concern us. That would let all members, old and new,
polite and rude, have a say. Surely that's more efficient for us
and for him.
ROG:
Excellent idea.
DAN:
Robert Pirsig's interest in LC took me completely by surprise. Whether he
would be interested in answering a group letter is not for me to comment on.
It sounds like a wonderful project for someone though.
DIANA:
Believe me, LC would be ripped to shreds in the marketplace,
and anyone whose name is attached to it will look
like a fool.
ROG:
I predict (like Dan) that LC will be ignored by the marketplace. However, I
think that even with a limited MOQ forum audience we need to respect that
some people are no longer represented by their views. In fact most aren't.
If you actually track the threads from the beginning to the end of each
month, you can find growth in individuals on each topic in just 30 days. To
be honest, anyone who does think the same thing now as 3 or 4 years ago was
either really, really well thought out back then, or hopelessly frozen in
place.
I agree that Dan needs to make this real clear, or find a way to mitigate
this effect.
DAN:
In reading back some of my own posts from early on, I cringe. But I have
always cringed when I see a picture of myself too. Why is that do you
suppose? Is everyone like that or is it only me?
Truthfully, I would feel much like Diana if someone approached me about
using those old posts. They are no longer representative of me as I envision
myself now. But they are a set of tracks, so to speak, showing my path to
where I am now. If someone else could follow those tracks and perhaps gain
in the experience somehow, then I would give my approval.
DIANA:
...This kind of approach sounds much better to me - properly referenced and
carefully written essays will let us present a
much clearer view of MOQ.org opinions.
ROG:
I again agree that it would be better. That doesn't mean that what Dan is
doing doesn't have value though. It is extremely difficult and perhaps even
impossible to edit streams of correspondence. But I am happy that Dan is
trying, and wish him well.
DAN:
Thank you Roger.
Rog
PS -- Is there an agreed upon line that clearly separates what can be quoted
without permission? Obviously, a phrase or sentence can be referenced to
whomever said it without permission, or newspapers could not exist. Does
anyone know what the formal or informal rules are?
DAN:
I am unsure. Bodvar informed me that Robert Pirsig told him quotes of 250
words or less do not require permission of the author.
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