Hi Dan, Marco, Roger, Platt and all,
Dan, our discussion on the second amendment was drifting off topic.
MARCO offers and excuse . . .
>"The MOQ_DISCUSS mailing list exists to provide a general and free-ranging
forum
>for the discussion of Robert M. Pirsig's Metaphysics of Quality. "
. . .but in the end I don't think we need it, because you will see that this
post ends up in familiar MoQ territory.
However, let's start where we were, on the periphery . . .
Dan and I both said that we dislike the idea of individuals carrying firearms.
Where we disagree is that he thinks Amendment II grants this right.
I think that America, in it's obsession with guns, has perverted a fine idea of
its founding fathers.
Where Dan is right is that what I call a "perversion" is the view that middle
America has adopted, thus
DAN
>as an individual can go
>down to the gun store right now and purchase a firearm, with no need of [him]
>belonging to a well regulated militia.
It sucks . . . but it's America's constitution, not mine, so who am I to
criticise?
There we should leave it, but Dan unexpectedly brought the subject back on
topic:
DAN
<<<So, does Amendment II pertain to only a collective people and
their service in a well regulated militia? or does it pertain to individuals
and their right to form well regulated militias? This is a very important
point and it is my opinion that history has shown time and again that
Amendment II is more about the individual's rights. Amendment II is designed
to be a Dynamic right and according to the MOQ only individuals can respond
to Dynamic Quality, a society cannot>>>.
Dan, the alarm bells are ringing in my ears. Maybe the US constitution is yours
to pervert, but the MoQ is not. Where do you get the idea that societies can't
respond to Dynamic Quality? Wasn't the Zuni story about just that? Aren't
Platt's and Roger's arguments in support of the free market about society
remaining dynamic?
I know that some participants probably think that there this discussion group
has degenerated into something like London's infamous "Speaker's Corner", with
little in the way of a unifying theme, but I see it quite differently. Pirsig's
patterns at ALL levels are evolving patterns, and the way they interact and
co-evolve is a part of every theme that gets discussed here.
Jonathan
P.S. No hard feelings Dan - this has been a GOOD discussion for me too.
P.P.S. Roger, about the thermodynamics, you say "I disagree somewhere for a
while,
but then I change my mind and it all seems clear.....hmmmmm".
I'm confused too. The more you disagree with me, the more I tend to agree with
you. Go figure!
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