Hello Jonathan,
How are you?
In a message dated 7/15/01 4:01:44 PM GMT Daylight Time,
jonathan.marder@newmail.net writes:
<< Subj: Re: MD Emotions revisited - revisited
Date: 7/15/01 4:01:44 PM GMT Daylight Time
From: jonathan.marder@newmail.net (Jonathan B. Marder)
Sender: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
Reply-to: moq_discuss@moq.org
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Hi Squonk,
SQUONK
> HAL 9000 in 2001 suffered a major case of 'cognitive dissonance,' because
he
> was forced to lie.
> Lying is incompatible with truth, and truth is an intellectual pattern of
> value.
Based on what I read in 2010, I understood that the mission goals HAL was
given turned out to conflict. "His" actions were based on logically pursuing
the goal that was given the highest precedence.
> There is no point in denying logical consequences.
HAL didn't. He accepted them. It was Dave who found it unacceptable.
HAL, as an instance of AI, is moulded as the, 'Pathetic machine.'
'Poor machine has to deal with a cruel human environment.'
In this environment, HAL went loopy.
And who wouldn't? ;)
Many people may have read the book or seen the movie 2001 and viewed HAL as
'Machine as menace'?
Asimov treated AI as engineered artefacts bound by design thus inventing a
third view of AI?
All i emphasise is that logical entities may be prone to 'cognitive
dissonance's' even when engineered to behave within strict limits?
I assume HAL did not transcend his design specs?
If he did, i have missed the point!
If i am correct and HAL was, 'Just' a machine, then he is a product of
reason, and Pol Pot was not, as far as i am aware, a reasonable chap.
Reason is quality in the MOQ, but reason in 'SOM science' has no value.
Therefore, HAL had no value; 'he' could only interact with 'nasty' (low
quality) humans.
In MOQ terms HAL is the product of high quality (human) intellectual
patterns, and if he transcends his design; develops emergent patterns of his
own, then we could be looking at 5th level static patterns of quality?
> Pol Pot did not value intellectual patterns; he valued social and
biological
> patterns.
> There is little if no connection between AI and social patterns.
Now you sound like David Buchanan - any idea he disliked was labelled as a
Social pattern. When we discussed Eugenics some time ago, I believe the
consensus was that it was based on Intellectual patterns - perverted maybe,
but nevertheless intellectual. Similarly, Pirsig portrays Marxism as an
Intellectual pattern, but still goes on to attack it for lack of dynamism. I
admit to knowing little about Pol Pot, but assume his "philosophy" to be an
offshoot of Marxist-Leninism or Maoism.
IMO you make the mistake of forgetting that Intellectual patterns can be BAD
patterns.
I am not aware of David Buchanan.
I am not sure which ideas you feel i do not like?
There are no 'bad' patterns.
What one may feel to be bad is a lack of quality.
Patterns are relative to Dynamic Quality, and may therefore be freeing or
restrictive.
There are low quality intellectual patterns, and high quality intellectual
patterns.
There are low quality social patterns, and there are high quality social
patterns.
Pol Pot was a thug and a killer who used an intellectual pattern as an excuse
to behave as such. Had he been dominated by the intellectual patterns
attributed to him, he would have been rather a high quality individual i
assume?
As it was, he was not evil; Pol Pot was a low quality social pattern of value.
Those intellectual patterns attributed to him are high quality intellectual
patterns, for they organise the immediate lower level for the social welfare
of all, while freeing intellectual patterns to evolve.
Anyone who may feel socialism to be less freeing, (or more restrictive) than
capitalism is distinguishing between the quality of two intellectual patterns.
Neither one is bad; but one may be better.
Do i still sound like your illustrious friend Mr. Buchanan?
Jonathan
>>
All the best J!
Squonk. :-)
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