ROB and All.
Forgive me for not noticing you evaluating the
SOLAQI idea.You said:
> The Intellectual giant idea is something that makes me think
> with regards to the MOQ.
Intellectual Giant? Hmmm. Pirsig speaks about a social giant in
LILA - a part I don't like particularly well because it makes social
quality sound sinister - not the least like a value, but OK, each Q-
level may be regarded as a "giant". Yes, Intellect is very much THE
GIANT of this era ....tyrant perhaps :-).
> Looking at the MOQ on an individual level it is a lot
> harder to test if the MOQ is transcendent to a new level, but as a
> giant, it might be easier to tell. It could be proven to be a
> "greater giant" if it unifies many intellectual patterns into one
> single "mystical" pattern.
And the Quality level another giant? OK. "Unifying many
intellectual patterns...."? IMO "unification" is the exquisite social
value like you say below.
> Similarly to how a social system unifies
> many people into one social pattern. I think by this definition, the
> SOLAQI definition of the MOQ still applies, although in order to
> test this, it would require other intellectual patterns to be seen
> as converging into it.
Right, the social value is that of unifying biological patterns,
however seeing Intellect as a "unification" of social pattern is a bit
harder and a movement beyond Intellect as ...convergence of
intellectual patterns? Well, I don't dismiss this approach out of
hand, but let's examine the way that Pirsig sees the level's
birth, namely that of a pattern of the parent level that - from the
position of being it topmost defender - "goes off on a purpose of its
own". To see the first life as a protector of inorganic value
requires a little stretch of imagination, but .. a purpose
of it's own ...sure. Social value's relationship with Biology is more
clear regarding the protective part and also the "own purpose"
aspect. Intellect vs Society is the eternal bone of contest of this
forum, but IMO it was no sudden introduction of "thinking" (mind)
rather seeking what's objectively TRUE in contrast to social
bigotry. And this rational giant has reigned ever since.
An aside: It's "existence" that have reached these level, each
individual fluctuates between them, focus isn't fixed on any level.
This is what makes some so furious because it sounds as if
Western man is of some higher development than individuals of
other cultures.
And now to the point. What would a development beyond Intellect
be like to meet the "protective and "own purpose" requirements?
> Eastern and Western metaphysics could be seen
> as converging here, but I, as an individual have no ability to judge
> this coming fromt he West.
Excellent point. I have said it before that the MoQ is an East-West
bridge - erected from the West Bank. Before Pirsig all efforts had
been from the Eastern side and no-one has been any wiser. In its
time I was a fan of Alan Watts ("The Way of Zen") but only with
Pirsig did I understand what Watts tried to say.
> Althouth SOM would only be one of the
> intellectual giants that make up the Q-intellect level of the MOQ,
> the SOM would still define the Q-intellect, for a westerner.
Do you have an example of other "intellectual giants that make up
the Q-intellectual level of the MOQ"?
> Just a thought,
A very significant one Rob.
Bo
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:01:42 BST