TO Marco and Rick
MARCO "Good is not an adjective".
RICK: then 'good' has lost its meaning as it can be equally applied to anyone
from Hitler and Bin Laden to Gandhi and Martin Luther King."
MARCO: Indeed. A thing that has no value does not exist.
ERIN: To quote Star Trek- let us be men and let history judge whether we were
good or not.
Again the hierarchy- Quality
Quality
Animate (good)- Inanimate(bad)
animal
dog
cockerspaniel
When quality is broken down it is good and bad but when there is no division
there is a third element.
J. Keats statement helps here
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty,--that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."
ERIN: I was wondering if you could help me figure this out. I think the
levels are important (for me) to think about this because everytime you go
down a level the previous level is broken down to more specific terms. So
this third element, truth beuuty (good bad) really is not just a combination
of two lower words (not good + bad) it is a relationship more like the
resulting compound in a chemical reaction- it is a discrete third entity that
is more than just a mixture of the other two.
Now that was why I thought it was good for Horse to suggest to use "Quality is
a noun" to emphasize goodbad is a third element. But what I am hung up on is
that you really need a word that doesn't have an opposite. There are words
that are the opposite of Quality. So is it that we don't have a word that
doesn't have an opposite? I am beginning to think he should have put " Art is
a noun". That doesn't have an oppposite right?
To quote Ani Difranco-- "Art is why I get up in the morning and my definition
ends there." Arete is the really undefinable that we are all trying to define
right. I think Marco put it best. Good as he thinks that these terms are
closer to the big "?". A person who seeks good (truth, beauty) is no different
from someone who seeks evil (lies, uglines) because they are both really
seeking that level above but can not name because every word you use to
describe it seems to have an opposite.
ERIN: What really as Marco suggested Pirsig should have wrote " ? is a noun"
Thank you Marco for helping me see that now help me with this. What if Pirsig
had put Lila is a noun. If every word has an opposite does a name also have an
opposite? Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet?
I think I got it "?" does have an opposite it is "!" but neither has names.
MARCO: Then, it is IMHO probably true that it is a trick the statement about
the
Indians using good as a noun rather than as adjective. but I bet that
Indians use the "good" adjective too.
ERIN: Yes according to Pirsig Indians do use both. What he said was the
different emphasis on the two. That is between GOOD man vs. good MAN
The Indian emphasizes Good whether they are using it as a noun or as an
adjective. What was confusing me is that when Laverne would say it one way the
Indian gave it the other way. Was he trying to trick her, mess with her, did
he not understand which one she was asking,????????
To Rick: I looked up up what Valence met. It was very intersting to learn the
psychological, linguistic, and chemical definitions of it. It sheds a whole
other light on this.
va·lence (vlns) also va·len·cy (-ln-s)
n. pl. val·lenc·es, also val·len·cies
Chemistry.
The combining capacity of an atom or radical determined by the number of
electrons that it will lose, add, or share when it reacts with other atoms.
A positive or negative integer used to represent this capacity: The valences
of copper are 1 and 2.
The number of binding sites of a molecule, such as an antibody or antigen.
The ability of a substance to interact with another or to produce an effect.
Psychology. The degree of attraction or aversion that an individual feels
toward a specific object or event.
Linguistics. The number of arguments that a lexical item, especially a verb,
can combine with to make a syntactically well-formed sentence, often along
with a description of the categories of those constituents. Intransitive verbs
(appear, arrive) have a valence of onethe subject; some transitive verbs
(paint, touch), twothe subject and direct object; other transitive verbs (ask,
give), threethe subject, direct object, and indirect object.
The capacity of something to unite, react, or interact with something else: “I
do not claim to know much more about novels than the writing of them, but I
cannot imagine one set in the breathing world which lacks any moral valence”
(Robert Stone).
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