Davor,
I've pondered about that one for a while in fact. How can the world be
moving toward quality and order if the tendency is for entropy or chaos to
increase. But that's probably one of the most interesting things about the
MOQ. The tendency for quality to increase on one level by reducing the
quality of level below it.
Pirsig seems to think it's an unwanted side effect of the intellectual
level (the fight against society) but it might be essential it it's
existence, something has to be sacrificed.
How Life breaks chemical bonds to release the stored energy within them,
how societies combat the instincts of the individual in order for the
society to survive, how intellectual ideas break down the rgid social rules
in order to allow ideas to flourish. Even how the strictest intellectual
rules are broken by the MOQ (if you like the 5th level idea). In physics as
in the MOQ, there is no free lunch. Quality on the inorganic level is slowly
fading away. There is no fundamental differeence between the quality of an
atomic bond or the quality of an idea according to the MOQ. Any new advance
in static quality can only survive by breaking the bonds of the lower
levels, the chaos balance must be positive. Thus is the nature of the
universe.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Chris Vlaar
Sent: January 17, 2002 12:57 PM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD Metaphysics of quality time
Hi Squonk, 3WD, Rob, Erin and squad,
3WD;
Thank you for the recommendation of the book by Edward Hall, I really like
to read it but I'm so broke I even stopped buying second hand books, let
alone that I can purchase a book like that. If it's not too much to ask
maybe you have a cheap suggetion like an I-net site with a review?
Squonk you wrote in a message tue, 15 Jan;
''.........The word time comes from the word 'tide' for example. But change
is not causal in the MOQ; change is a shift in patterns of value towards new
states of value, and the shift is an expression of a patterns relationship
with DQ . .........''
Great! Especially the second sentence has cleared things really up for me, I
did not think of time in relation to causal principles, can not believe I
didn't see something that is that huge.
You might want to read the last few sentences I wrote to Erin.(maybe even
everything)
Erin you wrote Jan 15;
'' So there may be a subjective aspect of time but there may also be an
objective aspect(mechanism) that keeps time.
There is indeed a subjective aspect of time Erin, the objective aspect I
don't know, when you say mechanism I tend to think; NO, I haven't figured it
out completely why. To the subjective aspect though I wholeheartedly say ;
YES. Everybody has had experiences where the perception of time was
completely ''disoriented''. There are moments we percept time in a
different way than normal, ''the flow'' state is an example of this, very
well described by that author with that difficult name(I lend out my copy,
but you know who I mean). But there are even better examples than this flow
state, that is the ''life flash'', the near death experience, (I guess there
is an English word for it too).
(The following I derived from an article in a dutch magazine);
These experiences are so intens, the amount of adrenalin and endorfin that
the body produces is enormous and this leads to a very vague perception of
time or actually no perception of time, this experience seems to consist of
memories, not summarized, but a very detailed description of your whole life
span, complete introspection.
Sir Francis Beaufort describes it; '' Though my senses were numb, the
activity in my brain seemed heavily intensified. Thought after thought came
to me with a velocity that is not only indescribable but can't even be
imagined by somebody who didn't experience it.................My whole past
life seemed projected before me in a sort of panoramic reminis.''
A dutch psychologist called Douwe Draaisma did research on this and came
with a simple explanation which resembles the opinion of a german physicist
and philosopher Gustav Fechner who argues that during our lifes we have a
very limited access to our memory(I agree strongly here) and during the last
moment we finally have full access and experience the enormous scope of it.
Another theory was launched by a german psychologist and friend of Freud,
Oskar Pfister. He argues that the human mind has ''instruments'' to cope
with strong sensational ''tickles''. Just like our senses, try sitting on a
bbq! The mind or superunconsiousness wants to mislead the consious from
actually knowing that it going to die painfully. Like some doktors do when
they inject kids, wave with candy! So the near death experience is the
candy-wave of the superunconsiousness. Maybe you ever heard of Russel Noyes
and Roy Kletti, who liked to refer to it as depersonalisation
The next thing that I want to say is something that might relate to Squonk
his DQ = time and my own statements in my initial post concerning this
subject. It is still about the near death experience, these experience are
experienced by people of all ages but interesting to see is that these
experiences are mostly experienced by people that have not reached the age
of 20, this seem to fit right in with DQ(experience) where it are also the
younger people who seem to be more open to it.
You also wrote something about this guy from ''one hippopotamus, two
hippopotamus'' I don't know what you mean by that, and I can be completely
lost(I don't know what hippotamus is) here but the Hippocampus a part of the
brain that is vital for rembering autobiographical details seems to be
important in our perception of time. Maybe there is a way of ''stimulating''
this hippocampus which changes the perception of time?
Rob you wrote also on 15 Jan. ;
''..........because the entropy of the universe is in increasing with every
process, and our brain processes can only move in negative entropy
directions''
And further;
''Entropy means disorder or chaos, I interpret it as a decrease in quality
on the inorganic level''
''In other words time is a perceptive effect that has emerged from the
tendency of everything(even the things in our brain)towards chaos.(from a
physics standpoint)
Davor:
Hmm, decrease you say, doesn't this contradict with everything moving
towards DQ?
Am I wrong on the MOQ or am I not getting what you are saying?
Greets Davor
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:01:46 BST