Platt, Mary, Bo and all:
I'm not sure how the following ended up under the subject of solipsism, but
I'd like to reply anyway. (IMO, the MOQ is not solipsistic, although some
people seem to incorrectly read it that way.)
Platt: Here's a quotation from Aziz Nasafi:
"On the death of any living creature, the spirit returns to the spiritual
world, the body to the bodily world. In this, however, only the body is
subject to change. The spiritual world is one single spirit who stands
like unto light behind the bodily world and who, when any single
creature comes into being, shines through it as through a window.
According to the kind and size of the window less or more light enters
the world. The light itself however remains unchanged.
DMB replies...
I was one of the pall bearers at my father-in-law's funeral yesterday. There
were readings from several religious traditons and from several poets and
they each expressed the same notion that Nasafi does. Thanks, Platt. I read
a few lines from Joseph Campbell's HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES that not only
said the same thing, but insisted that the notion is a universal doctrine
contained in all mythologies and in all religions. I don't have the book
with me, but I'll try to recall those lines as accurately as I can. Campbell
said, "Briefly stated, the universal doctrine teaches that all things and
all beings are the manifestations of a ubiquitous force from which they
rise, which supports and fills them during their period of manifestation,
and back into which they ultimately dissolve. This ubiquitous force is known
to physics as energy, to the Hindus as Shakti, to Bhuddists as the Maya, to
the Sioux as Wakonda and to Christians as the power of God." That's not
exactly how it goes, but its very, very close. Nearly memorized it
yesterday.
Mary:
This is lovely, Platt, but who is Aziz Nasafi? Another question. Since
Pirsig says that everything fits into one of the 4 levels, and a spirit
world doesn't seem to, does that imply that the spirit world resides somehow
within DQ? Where would that be? Is the nature of DQ a spirit? I thought
DQ was the driving force for 'the good' or 'Quality' in the universe - sort
of the opposite of entropy. I didn't know it had spirits in it. I'm not
trying to be facetious, just ignorant... Please explain your view of how
spirits fit into this. I always thought that when you die you are dead.
End of story. What does the MOQ have to say about this? I don't recall
Pirsig saying anything about it.
DMB replies...
I'd like to add that to the MOQ, this ubiquitous force is known as Dynamic
Quality, that all manifestations, all things and beings, are known as static
quality. I'd like to add that this view is much more ancient than SOM or any
metaphysical system, that it predates the birth of the intellectual level by
many thousands of years, that this truth can be experienced directly and
that such an encounter is known as a mystical experience. Its not so much
that DQ has spirits in it, its just that the ineffable, undefinable ground
of being has been known by many names, many different metaphors have been
used to refer to it and so calling this source of creation a spiritual realm
or reality is just as good (or bad) as any name. Its easy to think of the
undifferentiated aesthetic continuum as the un-manifested ubiquitous force
that supports and fills our everyday static reality.
Even further, I'd like to add that this is one of the interesting things
about the social level, especially the unconscious, which is the source of
all mythological systems and all religions. Its distinctly different than
intellectual values, but clearly has an intelligence and a wisdom of its
own. And it seems to me that Pirsig's problem with SOM is that it rejects
this kind of ancient wisdom as some kind of primitive and subjective
superstition rather than the expression of actual experience. (The trick is
to have this experience BEFORE you die so that DQ can support and fill your
life in a richer, more conscious way.)
How's that for a mystical bent, Jonathan? Contrary to popular opinion,
mysticism is supported by overwhelming evidence, by evidence from all times
and all places, is supported by the experiences of countless individuals and
I think that once this idea "clicks" you'll see it everywhere.
DMB
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