Wim and all MOQers:
Wim said to DMB...
We still seem to disagree what myths can learn us about the social level. I
hold that myths are primitive intellectual patterns of values, you seem to
see them as social patterns of values. But aren't myths sets of ideas and
sets of ideas intellectual patterns of values?
DMB says back...
First of all, arrrrgh! (That's me pulling my hair out.) The difference
between the social and intellectual values is just as important as the
difference between rocks and organisms. One of the major problems with SOM
is that it cannot see this distinction. Like yourself, SOM treats myths as
nothing more than bad ideas, or low grade intellect. But that's like saying
that rocks are low grade organisms. Myths are not the same thing as ideas at
all. Now, just to be perfectly clear about this, there are scholars and
intellectuals who are engaged in comparative mythology and literature. They
(and we) can examine religions and myths from a intellectual perspective,
but this is not supposed to blur the distinction. Its supposed to sharpen
and clarify the difference.
Wim wrote....
For me all political positions are located at the 4th level even if they are
promoting less independence of the 4th level from the 3rd level. Promoting
less independence of the 4th level from the 3rd level is not necessarily
less moral than promoting more independence. We need some balance to
preserve a healthy social foundation for higher level patterns of values and
the balance may be disturbed in some circumstances in the direction of too
much independence for intellectual patterns of values.
DMB responds....
Again, you have collapsed the distinction between levels in exactly the way
that SOM does. Pirsig says this confusion is what dominates all talk about
morality and society. This is the thing that Pirsig is trying to clear up by
making the distinction between social and intellectual values.
"Unless you separate these two levels of moral codes you get a paralyzing
confusion as to whether society is moral or immoral. That paralyzing
confusion is what dominates all thoughts about morality and society today."
P307
DMB, the bald.
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