In a message dated 3/14/02 4:49:16 PM GMT Standard Time, pholden@sc.rr.com
writes:
<< Subj: Re: MD Is Society Progressing?
Date: 3/14/02 4:49:16 PM GMT Standard Time
From: pholden@sc.rr.com (Platt Holden)
Sender: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
Reply-to: moq_discuss@moq.org
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Thanks for getting back to me on this one.
I appreciate your views Platt.
Hi Squonk:
> Individuality is largely an illusion.
Among others, evolutionary biologists would disagree. Changes in
individual organisms, not populations or species, succeed in passing
on traits to subsequent generations.
(There is no mention of the possible Darwinising of culture here!)
But biological entities adapting to environmental niches are not agents
exercising free will.
In short, before the ability of intellect and the negation of restricting
social constraints allowed for artificial tinkering with evolution,
biological values emerged from the law of the jungle.
I am talking about freedom of the individual within society; primarily the
abstract concept of human rights - which is an intellectual pattern of value.
To suggest that individual 'persons' are more valuable than society is to
confuse intellectual values with our status as cultural entities.
> So, rather than denying individual rights, we may better recognise that for
> individuals to assert inappropriate privileges is immoral? If i appropriate
> rights that undermine social values, then surely social values may
> appropriate the right to restrict my perceived freedom?
What "inappropriate privileges" do you have in mind?
Privileges that allow me to undermine society.
One such privilege may be as a Hollywood film producer?
Or maybe a 'sell them a dream then ship 'em shit' capitalist purveyor of
consumerism? (i.e. a Hollywood film producer).
> However, if i
> appropriate no rights as such, but recognise that i am less than the whole,
> i may learn to accommodate a role in the play of life, biosphere and spirit
> that may benefit all?
No offense, but this seems to me to be a perfect credo for an ant.
Ants take what they need and don't kill for pleasure.
A philosopher lives by the example of true reality and not in a self
perpetuating illusion?
> And to this end, one must cultivate intellectual
> values. Intellectual values are perhaps, ironically, the best right of the
> individual, for intellect transcends the individual through evolution of
> values.
But, as Pirsig says, only a non-illusory individual can respond to DQ,
the creative force of value evolution. Like the biological level example
above, evolution depends on (real) individuals, just as the growth and
wider influence of this Web site does. (-:
Evolution depends upon DQ and maintains itself through static latching.
Our culture is our 'colony' and it is not a healthy one in my view?
It is not a healthy one because our social values are based on values of the
individual, and that is putting the cart before the Horse? Surely!
The value trap of individuality allows the many to be manipulated as one - by
the one!
What one individual does today, many millions could be doing tomorrow - and
you talk about individuality! :-)
Platt
>>
Much still to think about...
All the best,
Squonk.
P.S.
Is logic a dead end or level 5?
You did not get around to that one.
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