None of this is close to 'mistreatment' . See my comments below. Most
compellingly, for those who don't have time to actually look into the
history and current realities, is the fact that the Palestinians themselves
don't complain of being mistreated (except for that one incident in Jordan,
when the Jordanian government repressed Palestinian proto-government in the
Palestinian refugees camps). This 'mistreatment' charge is a red herring,
to make it seem like the Arab countries somehow are co-responsible with
Israel for the Palestinian suffering. Palestinians themselves do not give
any credence to this.
Lawry:
But this has nothing to do with 'Arab mistreatment' of the Palestinians.
Can you provide any specifics on this, any primary citations? You must
have
some evidence upon which to base this assertion.
There is zero evidence of mistreatment, as far as I know. Yes, there have
been tensions between the Palestinian refugees and some of their host
countries at some moments in time. But I would not call this mistreatment,
if you are going to point to this, most notably with Jordan.
I await your information on this.
Rog:
See questions 5, 13 and 14 below.
1. Which people cheered on the streets on 9/11?
a) Israelies
b) *Palestinians*
Actually, it turned out that this was footage of anotehr event, on file,
and that it started being shown in conjunction with 9/11. But I was taken in
at the time, too.
2. Who, in 2000, refused an offer to give the Palestinians 97% of the
west
bank -- in a contiguous area -- shared control of Jerusalem, a capitol
in
Jerusalem, and the right for Palestinians refugees everywhere to return
to
the new homeland?
a) *Arafat*
b) Barak
This was actually in 2001. This was a niggardly 'offer,' though, yes, it
was the most 'generous' one yet offered by Israel. It does not provide for
the creation of a viable Palestine, and failed to honor several past
agreements in principle, e.g. the Oslo Accords. Many other key issues were
not resolved during those negotiations, and the talks broke down over
several issues, not just the one you cite.
The situation is not one in which the Israelis can simply make offers
and the Palestinians are obligated to accept them. The two are at war, and
only cooperative negotiations can end it. Both sides will have to compromise
significantly if these negotiations are to be successful. Neither can impose
a solution on the other.
3. True or false -- Palestine was a British mandate given to Jews and
Palestinian Arabs after WWI from the remnants of the Turkish Empire?
a) *true*
b) false
4. 80% of Palestinian land is in which country?
a) *Jordan*
b) Israel
5. Prior to Israeli occupation, the West Bank and Gaza Strip were
controlled
by..
a) The free state of Palestine
b) *Jordan and Egypt*
Yes, after the israei seizure of much of Palestine, Egypt took over the
administration of the Gaza Strip, and Jordan the West Bank. They both did so
with explicit agreement of the Palestinians and explicit statements that
they were NOT asserting sovereignty over those two areas. Indeed, both
governments have periodically reasserted this, and their national maps did
not show those areas as a part of their sovereign lands. No mistreatment,
and no complaints by the Palestinians that Egypt and Jordan did anything
improper.
6. Israel occupied these two areas because...
a) They attacked peaceful arab neighbors in a land gr! ab
b) *They captured it in a battle while defending themse! lves from
attempted
arab annihilation*
The Gaza Strip and West Bank were seized by Israel in 1967 in a war that
Israel initiated, not the Arab countries. In 1973, Egypt did attack Israel,
but in the end this did not affect the West Bank or Gaza demarcations.
7. Which people have textbooks teaching their children that another
religious
group is evil and must be killed?
a) Israelis
b) *Palestinians*
Now, this one we have talked to death.
8. Whose government-run newspaper ran a headline praising Adolph Eichman
with
"The Honor of Killing 6 Million" people?
a) America's
b) *Saudi Arabia's*
Don't know about this. Citation. please?
9. Which side of the struggle pays $25 to $50K to the families of
suicide
bombers that kill mothers and children?
a) Jews
b) *Arabs*
I believe this is correct, but don't have primary source knowledge. It
is fo course, contentious to specify that 'mothers and children' are the
victims, when men are as well. or is a man's life not worth as much as a
woman's, in your view?
10. A representative of which country boasted that the final solution to
the
middle east problem was in getting nuclear weapons?
a) Israel
b) *Iran*
Didn't know this. I would have guessed Saddam Hussein. I wonder to what
extent the Israeli possession of nuclear weapons makes the ASrabs feel they
too must 'get one.' This is all so sad. I am thinking of your 'millions
dead' scenario.
11. Whose covenants of 1968 specifically state that "the establishment
of
Israel is fundamentally null and void" and that it "is a national
duty....to
purge the Zionist presence."?
a) *Palestine's*
b) France's
Correct. You do not note that this part of the Palestinian National
Covenant has been eliminated.
12. Whose geography maps in school don't show Israel?
a) *Pal! estinians'*
b) Turkey's
Please note that the website you referred me to, also indicates that
Jewish fundamentalist textbooks fail to show Palestine on their maps, and
show Israel all the way to the Jordan river.
13. Palestinians are denied employment, healthcare and government
services
in...
a) Israeli occupied territories
b) *Lebanon*
Wrong. Palestinians had all of this in Lebanon. They ARE refugees
there, and so do live in poor conditions generally, but not as a result of
government policies. Lebanon has provided a great quanity of services to the
Palestinians in kind -- municipal services, utilities, etc. Check out the
UNWRA records (the UN refugee agency that has kep meticulous records over
the decades.) It is true that no host government has wanted to take the
large numbers of refugees in as permanent residents, and that they are
viewed, in there numbers, as a social burden. But hundreds of thousands of
Palestinians work gainfully in their host countries, and indeed in some have
become full players in the economy.
Again, no mistreatment, and, again, none alledged by the Palestinians
themselves.
14. Who ethnically cleansed (deported) hundreds of thousands of
Palestinians
about a decade ago?
a) *Kuwait*
b) Israel
The term 'ethnic cleansing' means killing a population, genocide, or
exile. At the time of the US/Kuwait counter-attack on Iraq, some
Palestinians supported Iraq, who they viewed as their major political
supporter at the time. The Kuwaitis were furious, as you can imagine, and
expelled Palestinians who worked there, including some who had been there
for decades and had come to think of themselves as Kuwaitis. This was a
great hardship, but not, IMO, inappropriate. Palestinians were expelled,
not killed. BTW, this is a pattern that the Palestinains have experienced
before: their poltiical activism become a thorn in the side for their host
governments, tension mounts, and sometimes boils over into trouble: Jordan,
Lebanon, Egypt, and Kuwait had this experience.
But it isn't mistreatment. I am sure that those who would wish the
issue of the Palestinians to 'go away' find comfort in the argument that the
Arab countries have 'failed' to assimilate the Palestinian refugees who
fetched up in their countries; you will understand the shared insistence of
the Palestinians and Arab countires that the Palestinians be able to return
to Palestine.
15. Who provides sanctuary and support for some of the most wanted
terrorists
and suicide bombers and also celebrates murderous martyrdom?
a) Clinton
b) *Arafat*
I don't know about 'celebrates', but generally, this is correct. There
is no doubt in my mind that Arafat at least implicitly condones it. Please
note that this is what happens in insugencies: the formal political
institutions use the violent angers of portions of their populations to lend
urgency and credibility to their political demands. Israel used this very
tactic in winning their independnece -- you have probably heard of the Irgun
and Stern groups. The head of the Irgun, Menachem Begin, was later to become
Israeli Prime Minister. In office, he did a creditable job trying to work
out a peace with the Palestinians, and brought his people a significant
distance down that path. Which suggests that even today's terrorist can
want and work toward peace.
Please correct my test above, and help me become aware of my
indoctrination.
I can't progress until I learn.
Well, Roger, despite misgivings, I decided to take your 'test'
seriously, and I hope my comments have thrown some light on the matter.
I do hope you will take me up on my offer to provide you with a reading
list, as I cannot keep up this pace of writing.
Best regards,
Lawry
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