To Horse (and to the forum),
> RICK (from last time):
> Of course the moderator has a job to do here. I can see the value in
> screening out complete irrelevancies and pointless obscenities.
HORSE
> On 26 Jan 2001 at 19:10, Struan wrote:
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I have this horrible image of Horse masturbating as he unsubscribes me -
> > uuggh!!
> >
> > Struan
>
> Obscene enough for you? High intellectual content there eh! Very relevant
to any
> discussion. Rick I have neither the time nor inclination to vet posts for
their suitability.
> It's a lot more practical to remove the source of the problem.
RICK
The problem with simply "removing the source of the problem" is that you
risk throwing the baby out with the bath water. By locking Struan out of
our forum because of the personal animosity that exists between the two of
you, we've all been deprived.
If Struan seems too abusive, why not simply ignore his posts? Why not
simply point it out to the rest of us and let the value of Struan's
contributions be determined by the intellectual marketplace as represented
by the members of this forum?
Struan's objections and arguments have been so formidable that even
Pirsig has felt the need to address some of them. I want to hear his points
of view on things we discuss. Many of us do, members like Jon, Rog, David
and myself who have been here for years and know how Struan can be have all
stuck up for him. Even newer members like Wim can already see the value of
Struan's contributions.
HORSE
> I'm not silencing him. He or you or anyone else is at liberty to start
another mailing list
> and say whatever you wish to say. Alternatively you can communicate
privately with
> anyone you wish to. I wouldn't want to stop you. Get a group together and
knock
> yourselves out. In general I'm extremely liberal with the interpretation
of the list rules but
> there is a line and Struan crossed it.
RICK
The MOQ discuss forum... love it or leave it? It shouldn't have to be
that way Horse. You are the moderator but this is surely our forum. This
is the forum we've built for years through our participation. It's the one
mentioned by Pirsig himself in the new forward to Zen and the Art of
Motorcycle Maintenance. And when Pirsig discovered this forum and wrote a
letter about it, he wrote it to the members, not the moderator.
Preserving the integrity of the forum is an important value, but by the
dictates the Metaphysics of Quality itself, preserving social order at the
expense of intellectual exchange is immoral. Intellectual progress values
the free exchange of ideas. The free exchange of ideas means tolerating
abuses. The free exchange in ideas means that as surely as Martin Luther
King should be allowed to march through Alabama, the Nazis should be allowed
to march through Skokie. It means that all must be allowed to participate,
and the only judge of the value of the contributions can be Intellectual
Quality itself.
Abuse can be a bitter pill to swallow. But why not be the bigger man
here Horse?
HORSE
...in addition to Struan there is one other person that I
> have removed from the list and who will not be accepted back. Killerblade.
I don't accept
> that forging another's name (3WD) or unsubscribing them by the same method
is
> acceptable - I know, I'm just so unreasonable.
RICK
Blocking someone's participation because they've stolen another member's
identity or tampered with another member's subscription is perfectly
reasonable. But blocking another member's contributions because they've
insulted you seems unreasonable to every forum member who has cared enough
to speak up on the matter... do our opinions mean nothing to you?
That being said, I present the following forward sent to me by Struan
Hellier ( just below).
Horse, I hope that you will not choose to ban me for posting this. As you
know, I've been a participant here for years and highly value the time I
spend with the forum. I was conflicted about whether or not to post this on
Struan's behalf, but when faced with a difficult moral question I typically
ask myself what Thoreau would do. So in the name of civil disobedience, I
have decided it is more moral to post it than not to. I have never (as far
as I know) transgressed any of the rules of the forum before... I hope you
(Horse) will forgive me this one indulgence.
The following was written by Struan. I ask that you let it's Value be
determined by the forum....
respectfully,
rick
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
> THIS POSTING IS COMPOSED ENTIRELY BY ME (STR*AN HELLI*R), NOT RICK AND
> THEREFORE SHOULD NOT IN ANY WAY BE TAKEN AS REFLECTING RICK'S POINT OF
> VIEW OR INDICATING HIS APPROVAL OF THE CONTENT, STYLE OR AUTHOR.
>
>
> Gr*etings,
>
> My apologies for the censorship avoidance techniques. I hope that this
> finds its way past Horse's various filters.
>
> Just to correct a few things that Horse has written. I was not
> un-subscribed, nor was I asked not to attempt to re-subscribe, and I was
> not asked not to post again. Indeed, I have never been informed about
> any of this. I was simply unable to subscribe, receiving an e-mail
> stating that when my application has been approved, I will be informed.
> It was not and I wasn't. This is typical of Horse's persistent
> reinvention of truth and cowardly approach to dealing with dissent.
>
> Now, given that Horse had (in Jan 2001) recently called me 'stupid',
> 'peevish', 'hypocritical', 'talking out of my arse', 'aggressive',
> 'abusive', 'boorish', 'arrogant', plus a host of other choice phrases,
> and, bearing in mind that one year later he is still telling everyone
> who will listen that I am a 'liar', 'a total twat', 'an idiot', 'a
> hypocrite', and 'a sham who talks garbage', ( all from Fri Dec 07 2001 -
> 01:23:37 GMT), when I make a joke about how personal he was being by
> wondering aloud about whether he gets some kind of perverted sexual
> satisfaction out of his abuse, some might consider my underlying point
> to be entirely warranted. Anyone interested in comparing our relative
> merits as both writers and insulters should look at our postings from
> December 2001 (my most recent contributions and, apparently, the ones
> that leave me unable to subscribe). This will make it plain beyond doubt
> that Horse abused me far more than I did him, and consequently that his
> appeal to the rules of the forum are a smoke screen.
>
> With no evidence and in an entirely unprovoked and irrational vitriolic
> attack, Platt has called me 'monumentally stupid' and a 'Nazi
> sympathizer'. Does Horse mind? Of course not, because his position has
> nothing to do with rules but everything to do with Horse's fascination
> with cults, manifest (as Horse himself told me once) from an early age
> and finding fulfilment here in his first small taste of power. Mary
> Douglas' (Purity and Danger - 1966 - Oxford - O.U.P.) grid/group
> approach is helpful here in showing that the more closed the ideology,
> the more the body must be controlled. While personal identity is formed
> by the group, group integration is sustained by oppositional boundaries.
> In this way cognitive coherence and social coherence are related. The
> form of 'philosophy' manifested in this community is very closed in
> ideology and so vigorous suppression of decadent elements is essential
> if group integrity is to be maintained. The situation will worsen as
> Horse continues the classic route taken by tin-pot dictators and cult
> leaders. Those who value free speech should be worried.
>
> I have already pointed out why Pirsig is a hypocrite on this matter and
> Horse's hypocrisy compounds the problem facing the moq. A Metaphysics of
> Hypocrisy and Misrepresentation is all that will remain.
>
> All of which behaviour gives me a moral duty to contribute my own
> thoughts on the moq with an even greater conviction that I have got to
> the root of its failure. I will continue to do so and, by doing so, I
> will repeatedly expose those such as Pirsig, Horse, and Platt, as long
> as they feel the necessity to perpetuate and encourage what they
> themselves consider to be evil.
>
> Finally, I thank all three for making that task so easy.
>
> Str*an
>
>
>
>
>
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