Hi Squonk,
(I replied to an earlier post of yours on this topic but it bounced because
it was in HTML. I presume my computer automatically picked up the HTML from
your post and replied in kind, as I never use HTML.)
I thought you had some useful ideas in your recent post, but the ultimate
outworking was somewhat vague, and now following your recent post to Bo I
wonder do you actually understand memetics.
The key to memetics is imitation. Anything that can be imitated is
describable as a meme. This was pointed out by Dawkins who coined the term,
and established in Susan Blackmore's 'The Meme Machine', with an
introduction by Dawkins, where memetics is fleshed out. While imitation is
by its nature social, it is possible for its content to be intellectual or
artistic, or whatever. Styles in art are clearly memes, and the paradigm
shifts in science are probably memetic.
But you say "culture begins with US AS MEMES. (Or more precisely
memeplexes.)
WE ARE MEMES"
This is memetic nonsense. We are not memes, nor memeplexes, which are
constellations of memes that depend on being copied together to facilitate
their transmission.
You also say that "Memes ARE static social patterns of value."
As I have already pointed out, memes are anything that is capable of
imitation, and this includes ideas, instructions, behaviour, or pieces of
information. While imitation ensures a social element is present in the
transaction, the meme need not be social.
You say "Our 'minds' are but huge wells of memes and our ability to mediate
and manipulate them is INTELLECT. Note: Intellect is an ability, or
capability of discovering quality relationships between static patterns of
social value, (memes) and may be described therefore as a METHOD. That's the
essence of the divide between society and intellect."
I doubt that method actually is "the essence of the divide between society
and intellect." This seems not to be Pirsig's understanding, at any rate.
However I think you are right in seeing intellect as significant. In your
earlier post you used the term 'intelligence', seemingly interchangably with
intellect, as in "INTELLIGENCE may be usefully viewed as the ABILITY to
mediate memes."
The role of intelligence can be defined more precisely than you have done.
Its root meaning (from inter legere) is to read between the lines. It is
what 'sees through' the words to the meaning they carry, or it is the
perception that the pointing finger is not the same as what it points to.
The development of language in childhood is incomprehensible without
intelligence. Intelligence is the ability to recognize novel patterns of
value, to grasp their significance. It really has little to do with "the
ABILITY to mediate memes", which is more to do with a form of brain
development which facilitates imitation.
However, it is possible that your introduction of the term rationality has
something to do with intelligence. You said "RATIONALITY may be usefully
viewed as one METHOD - itself a hypermeme - for mediating memes." Since
memes are defined as anything that can be imitated, it follows that much
that is imitated my be of no value or even of negative value for those doing
the copying, particularly when genetic evolution has operated to facilitate
imitation though the development of imitative brains. Once these brains
exist, memes will get copied despite their lack of value for the person
doing the copying. Copy-cat suicides, for example.
I think it would be more correct to say that it is intelligence, rather than
rationality, that 'mediates' memes, if by the term 'mediates' we mean
'determine value'.
So when we ask how it is that I perceive the value of an idea, which may be
usefully seen as a meme, competing for 'space' in my brain, we have to
acknowledge that there is a way in which I determine that this particular
idea has value, while another has not. Intelligence is the term that points
to this ability to discriminate value at this level.
Regards,
John B
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