Hi Roger, Patrick:
ROG:
> > 3) Finally, one key complex experience or adaptation is that of
> > establishing
> > goals and purposes. Complex animals have developed this quality.
> > Purpose is
> > therefore not the cause of evolution, it is an emergent complex
> > quality
> > arising out of evolution.
>
> P::
> Hm... this is a very "scientific correct" answer. The crucial, debatable
> word on which this argument relies on, however, is "emergent", to me
> synonymous with the phrase "and then a miracle occurs...". It boils back to
> a discussion in the MoQ some time ago, can't remember, however, under what
> name (thread).
>
> ROG:
> Emergence is in no way synonymous with "and then a miracle occurs."
> Emergence can actually be a simple concept. For example, PRESSURE is an
> emergent property of containing multiple entities in a given area. ANT
> COLONES exhibit emergent behavior out of large numbers of simple responses
> to stimuli at the individual ant level. Taffic jam patterns are emergent
> properties when there are too many cars on the road at one time. I would be
> glad to fill in the blanks on evolution to share current ideas on how
> purpose could have emerged.
I have to go with Patrick on this one. "Emergent" as you use it Rog
sounds suspiciously like rationalization. For example (borrowing from
your examples):
WEIGHT is an emergent property of an accumulation of multiple entities
in a given area. CONGRESS exhibits emergent behavior out of a large
number of simple responses at the individual level. FLOCK patterns are
emergent properties when there are many birds in one space at one
time.
Which shows how it's easy to use higher verbal abstractions to describe
what parts sometimes collectively do, then call that abstraction an
"emergent," explaining nothing. (Same goes "self-organizing," the all
purpose cop out phrase one often sees in science literature.)
Sometimes scientific explanations remind me of how 5th graders write
stories, like: "Suddenly, a ghost appeared on the stairs." And that's just
for macro events, like evolution. When it gets down to the quantum
microworld, science really stretches credulity.
But of course, Rog, I could be wrong.
Platt
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