From: jhmau (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu Oct 17 2002 - 17:33:55 BST
On 10/14/2002 "Platt Holden" pholden @ sc.rr.com writes:
<snip>
> Experience prior to any inner-outer, subject-object distinction, is the
> ahistorical, universal foundation of the MOQ. You may not agree with it,
> you may not believe there can be experience without subjects, but there
> it is, the beginning of the Pirsigian revolution. It's only when you
> assume an "outer track" (SOM) to begin with that you can assign Pirsig
> to it.
Hi Platt, Matt and All,
A plumber's point of view. You know! Like shit runs downhill and payday's
on Friday!
I experience the dynamic as quality, existence, value. During a medical
procedure I was given the drug Versed. I was awake, but I experienced
nothing. I was unaware of the procedure. I was like a person with
Alzheimer's disease. After the procedure, for explanation, I asked the
doctor if I slept? He told me Yes. I was unaware that I slept. From this
I conclude that I can be aware without meaning or memory.
What is the "I"? I have no memory of being in the womb, nor of the first 3
1/2 years outside the womb. My experience of babies shows me that I was
able to act. How was I contained? Why did I not break into a million
pieces from my experience of all that was around me? Why only experience a
limited edition of the "now"? My actions were limited by my condition.
Gurdjieff writes: "Only such a sensation and such a cognizance can now
destroy the egoism completely crystallized in them that has swallowed up the
whole of their Essence and also that tendency to hate others which flows
from it--the tendency, namely, which engenders all those mutual
relationships existing there, which serve as the chief cause of all their
abnormalities unbecoming to three-brained beings and maleficent for them
themselves and for the whole of the universe."
What he writes rings true! From recent discussions I would call it struggle
between the social and intellectual order. What is my "egoism"? What is my
Essence"? I am abnormal! What is normal?
A parable! In the beginning my baby instincts generate experiences. As a
gravitational field around a planet, or a magnetic field around a magnet is
generated, so from my conception my instincts uses my DNA to generate a
field of awareness around my body. That field grows from three sources of
experience to become more complex. Then the instinct for quality generates
a second field of meaning, memory and speech connected to the first. I
become self-aware. I can
reflect on my experience, and tell others. The body of SOM.
The growing process can stop there. I can keep in my doubled awareness the
experiences that feel pleasurable to me, and not bother with the rest of my
experiences. I hold on to an "egoism" which has a tendency to hate others
who create a different kind of ego from different experiences. No mind! No
Will! No space! No time! Merely a self-awareness. If I acknowledge the
repeated experience that all my good things end, if I realize constantly my
own death I create a friction in myself. "Is that all there is?" I pay
attention! I become aware that I experience existence. What I do is not
what I wish to do, but what I do not want. I experience an intellectual
order.
>From Revelation I am told that Meaning, Existence, and Value can create a
soul. This is a third field connecting awareness, memory and speech to
itself. I have heard: Happy is the one who has a soul! Happy is the one
who does not have a soul! Unhappy and battered is the one who is trying to
make one!
Perhaps, the soul, beyond the connection quality, existence, value, can also
connect to the existence of the planet to experience a solar order. I
become a tree-hugger. Etc.
joe
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