From: Steve Peterson (speterson@fast.net)
Date: Wed Oct 30 2002 - 22:24:12 GMT
Sam says to Platt:
> On Rembrandt, I recognise what Pirsig is saying about dynamic quality in
> music, and certainly art can achieve that.
Steve says: I think you guys are talking past one another a bit. I don't
think that Platt (or Pirsig) is saying that the DQ is in the music. DQ
cannot be contained. The music itself is a static pattern. Music may be
valued based on its ability to mediate DQ in an interaction between the
music and the person who hears it. It doesn't make sense to say it contains
DQ.
>Sam continues: But I still think there is
> something else going on, which is _prima facie_ the opposite of what Pirsig
> describes. To my mind, a great Rembrandt portrait can be 'lived with' in a
> way that results in an increase in perceived quality, in the same way that a
> great work of literature can be read and re-read with greater reward over
> time. Such creative products are clearly 'static latched' - they have a
> discrete and continuing embodiment - and I would be reluctant to fully agree
> with what you said ("Rembrandt has the effect of making DQ "shine through"
> to more people over more years than the jobber."). The part of that which I
> am hesitant about is the D of DQ; to my mind such products have clear fourth
> level static quality, and can be used to develop the appreciation and
> exemplification of fourth level quality in other people. Because they are
> not best understood as products of logic or science it seems misleading to
> label them 'intellectual'.
Steve says: I still think you are making the mistake of trying to
categorize things. You agreed with me before that the levels are better
thought of as ways of valuing. Music and art are not intellectual or social
things but can be valued in those two ways. Though art and music are for
appreciating in the Dynamic morality way that Platt pointed out.
Valuing art in the intellectual way is stale. When we try to describe what
we like, we can only discuss patterns of Value, but we can't communicate the
experience of DQ mediated by the art.
Steve
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