Jay and Xcto (won't you give us a name?) & Group.
It was possibly Jonathan and I who touched upon the Islam/West issue,
but Jay's most charming letter and Xcto's good reply make me try
again.
It's a big issue and my (Norwegian) experience with Islam is
next to nil, but the thing that Jay mentioned about kidnapping of
children is actual over here as well, such a case is at a court right
now. However, let me take the general view - the only one I feel
comfortable with.
The quotation from LILA (p.312 in the Bantam hardcover edition)
simply says that in the subject/object-metaphysics there are only
subjects with as many opinions as there are individuals about what
is good; morals, value, quality is subjective which is another word
for irreal. Moreover "society" has no special significance except as
an assembly of individuals, the only objective thing is the material
world and it is amoral. However there seems to be consensus that
freedom is good so a non-meddling society must be be good, and the
strictures observed in the Islamic culture bad. Regrettably freedom
has a dark side ...the free Western city dweller must sit behind
locks while the oppressed can walk unmolested through dark streets.
Paradoxical to say the least.
Enter the Quality metaphysics with its four (recognized) moral
levels. In this context "Society" is part of a bigger reality, and
we immediately see the impact on the individual as well as the
cultural plane. On the latter there is the intellect-influenced West
knocking on the society-influenced Islam doors.
No-one beside ourselves know of the Q-picture, so it's either a
crusade for freedom or a dissolution of values and Islam fights back
as the fundamentalist/terrorist movements shows, but I think they
are "doomed" (unless all world suddenly become Q-converts!)
and I think XCTO has a point when he writes:
> I don't understand this. The five pillars of Islam are very
> explicit, but they don't solve the "objective" problem any better
> than Christianity or Buddhism or others. When you look at the
> "values" of any religion they are all Social Static Patterns. They
> may work very well in Biological control, But can you tell us
> specific values that coiuld be used to dynamically improve the
> Social or Intellectual Levels of the USA?
Islam, along with the other Semitic derived religions (not
the dynamic mystic part) are SOM to the core (See later
about Buddhism Xcto). What Pirsig means by hinting to
Moslem values is NOT any reversal to fundamentalist religion, there
is no such possibility, only a circular movement to a point
corresponding to it at a higher level.
I think Xcto joins me in my test balloon: the Quality idea as a first
stirring of Dynamic Quality trying to free itself from Intellect's
constraints. Seen in this context the MOQ "supports" Social values
...in the same way as Intellect supports Biology in its struggle with
Society.
Footnote:
Why the struggle is not West vs East, and on Buddhism:
According to Pirsig the (Far) East has understood - and
resolved - the Dynamic/Static split long before it became an issue in
the West [still only in our small group :-(]. Buddhism solves the
dynamic/static problem ....to the Easterner ..... but Western mind
with its subject-object fixation cannot make it over the "gap".The
dynamic/static tends to become the idealist/materialist and seen thus
it messes it all up. Not even all of our group understand this either
(Hi Donny :-))
Bodvar
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