Diversity of Opinion
* Why are so few women in the squad?
>Horse:the majority of Internet users are, apparently, male
Yes, probably something less than 50% but the real ratio is not reflected
here.
>Fintan: In Ireland 40% of users are female. That is not why there are so
few females in the Squad. It is because the dry intellectualist objectivity
of philosophy is rightly perceived by so many women to be of LOW QUALITY.
And so they stay away.
Unfortunately, it's been my experience that many women seem to be engrossed
in a mental life filled with mysticism. Like Horse when faced with sexism
(see below), I often find myself at a loss when things are discussed
illogically. Perhaps the women of the Squad are simply more logically
oriented than the statistical average and thus take sustenance from the
debate.
>Diana: As for lack of women round here, it's a pity but it's the same on
other mailing lists and on usenet, I believe it's because of wider social
issues that have nothing to do with Lila. There is a social moral pattern
that discourages women from being independent and intellectual...
I don't know what it's like to be a woman outside the United States. In
this country, women engaged in this type of debate as recently
as 15 or 20 years ago would have been considered "weird".
>Jonathan: I'm afraid that none of the excuses I've read so far really hold
water. Let's face it, the Lila Squad is male dominated.
That about sums it up.
* Is Pirsig a misogynist?
>Horse: Nope! I've re-read the passage several times and I can't spot the
hatred towards women in the passage. But as this is from a male perspective
I could easily be wrong.
Ok, I'm willing to accept your statement at face value.
"The light from the open hatch above was so dim it concealed whatever lines
of cosmetics and age were there and now she looked softly cherubic..."
The light from the open hatch above was so dim she could no longer make out
the beer-gut or the remote control clutched tightly in his sweaty palm, like
a club - or something else. Sated now in sleep he looked almost child-like,
harmless.
Is there a difference?
>Diana: Lila Blewitt was written the way she was to bring out the conflicts
in Phaedrus biological and intellectual patterns. If she had been smart then
these conflicts would never have arisen and there would be no way to
illustrate the various moral patterns that are the subject of the book.
Yes, but I can visualize a lot of other ways one could illustrate moral
patterns and I'm disappointed that he chose this one.
>Horse: The reason she appears as a loser and (possibly) why Pirsig treats
her in this way is to illustrate the low Quality of the Objective (read
Male) view of promiscuous, self abusive women.
Horse, you have just redeemed yourself!
>Fintan: HIS is the lust and yet the "badness" is transferred into HER
breast.
Age-old story.
>Fintan: This is revolting. I feel ill just reading it.
Yes.
>Troy: whenever bigotry raises its hand, i say, "opportunity for increased
awareness."
Yes, we should all remember this.
* Is the male/female dichotomy biological?
>Bodvar: I consider everything about the book to be in the service of
demonstrating the MOQ so the description of Lila Blewitt may be shallow but
there is no feminine or masculine component to the MOQ. The sexual
attraction/discrimination is a Biological value of enormous age and
importance as is hunger and craving for food.
>Horse: try and keep a quality perspective and not a female/male/biology
perspective
I need to think about this some more. I owe you a post.
>Diana: (don't be too clever or you'll never find a husband).
This is it in a nutshell.
>Lithein: i am too much of a person to be defined by my gender.
Serious question: Is this denial? Would a man feel the need to say this?
>Bodvar: Another passage from ZAMM that made a deep impact on me was the one
where he complains about Phaedrus not living up to expectations: the class
at the Navy Pier University - where he teaches Quality - goes like wildfire,
but poor Phaedrus is not a shepherd and grows more and more silent and
scared of his "followers".
Yes, I recall that passage. This, too, left me with the same sense of
self-dread evoked by "Lila". Pirsig is masterful at this. He has me
wrapped around his little finger.
* Promulgating the MoQ
>Horse: I think the basis for the MoQ is easily understood by anyone with a
simple explanation. It's the minutiae which cloud the issues sometimes
Has the Squad been debating minutiae for a year? More on this later too.
>Lithein: maybe mary should finish it
Yes I should. I will. But to me it will be sort of like a child taking bad
medicine.
Wishing you happiness,
Mary Wittler
mwittler@geocities.com
ICQ# 19168557
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/8087/index.html
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