Hi EVERYbody:
Roger posted:
> (P)<So IMHO it's an experiential universe where there are plenty of
> distinctions (including you and me and the tree in the forest) but
no
> separations.>
>(R) There are actually five separations in the Stravinsky piece, but
other
>than that I would agree ALL IS ONE.
Here is what Pirsig wrote on the first two pages of Chapter 12:
"But although the four systems are exhaustive they are not
exclusive. They all operate at the same time and in ways that are
almost independent of each other. This classification of patterns is
not very original, but the MOQ allows an assertion about them that is
unusual.
---It says they are not continuous.
---They are discrete.
---They have very little to do with one another.
---Although each higher level is built on a lower one it is not an
extension of that lower level. Quite the contrary....
(3 pages later)
"Once this independent nature of the levels of static patterns of
value is understood a lot of puzzles get solved....When you say the
world is composed of nothing but value, what are you talking about?...
The word is too vague. The "value" that holds a glass of water
together and the "value" that holds a nation together are obviously
not the same thing......
---They are completely different from each other because they are at
different evolutionary levels...
---These patterns have nothing in common except the historic
evolutionary process that created all of them. But that process is
a process of value evolution. Therefore the name "static pattern
values" applies to all."
I think the terms "distinctions" and "separations" must be clarified,
as the problem smells to me like an SOM-caused problem.
And a page later is this quote which I'm STILL not sure if I
understand:
"...all schools are right on the mind-matter question. Mind is
contained in static inorganic patterns. Matter is contained in static
intellectual patterns. Both mind and matter are completely separate
evolutionary levels of static patterns of value, and as such are
capable of each containing the other without contradiction."
My question is:
What exactly does Pirsig mean by "CONTAINED"???
Next question:
What does IMHO stand for?
And here's the biggy:
These patterns have very little to do with one another?
How do they interact?
It seems that dynamic evolutionary release from a previous level
means having everything to do with one another.
Example of patterns having everything to do with one another on a
smaller time scale:
Some chemical process creates methane (ino value)
You fart violently on a crowded bus (bio value)
You are given very nasty looks (soc value)
You rationalize to your neighbour that according the MOQ that little
methane bomb, though ultimately immoral - social is better than bio
and you should have held it in in accordance with custom - it does in
fact have SOME quality - biologically. (int value)
You never would have gassed had the inorganic cloud not gathered in
your bottom
It wouldn't have passed if you had sphincter (valve) problems.
In a different society (theoretically) it wouldn't have been a problem
You would not have intellectually qualified that moment in time had
the social value not been expressed.
Sorry, gotta leave the room now...
rich
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