So in the end I forgot to put my answer to what is the next freedom: It will
be the freedom from ideas theories and beliefs in the socialization of
cultures, it will be a freedom felt by cultures.
and don't forget to be gentle
Avid
icq 6598359
----- Original Message -----
From: Avid Anand <quit@bezeqint.net>
To: MoQ Open Discussion group <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Donnerstag, 19. August 1999 16:38
Subject: Re: MD Life's not that simple.
> Now I wish to ask everyone this question:
> > If 'intellect' is the category with most freedom, what is going to come
>
> I order to engage in the question of "next freedom", we have first to
clear
> the issue of "existing freedoms", meaning how do the existing freedoms
look
> like?
> In order to do that I will apply Darwin's advice and "start from the
> middle". I will try to describe what is the freedom achieved by going from
> Biological SPQ [Static patterns of quality] to Social SPQ, and from Social
> SPQ to Cultural SPQ [what Pirsig calls Intellectual SPQ, and is confusing
> everybody ever since]
> Here I will start from the middle once again and start describing Social
> SPQ.
> The agent of this level SPQ is a social entity, it can be a citizen
> [regarding a state] or a family member or a family [regarding a family] ,
a
> complex creature of the social order the laws in this level are laws of
the
> society, laws of this state etc..
> If we go one step down the ladder [to Biological SPQ] we will be put once
> again under the law of survival [or the law of the jungle], meaning that
the
> laws in force are those which have to do with survival of the self or of
the
> specie. Here is clear that by going to a higher plane , we as individuals
> free ourselves from the laws of survival, but in the same time we are no
> more the Biological entity we used to be, but a Social entity. By being a
> member of a society, we free ourselves from the Biological laws order, not
> as individuals but as members of a society. So this freedom incorporates a
> bondage too, namely to identify ourselves as a member of society as a
> complex creature, and accepting it's laws [SPQ], and the various way to
> alter them. If we want to be free of societies laws, we can [as societies]
> enter in the next level, the Cultural level. Here the laws will be shared
by
> many societies, but societies [or social entities] will be the agents
active
> there. Cultural SPQ will be for instance laws of Economics, laws of
> Chemistry, laws of International Transport, laws of Internet, all that
many
> [and different] social entities share. Religion and Science used to be
once
> of a society [Social SPQ] and now are Cultural SPQ, hence broke free of
the
> society which formed them and have many social agents [from different
> societies] work within their laws. The freedom gained here is to be free
> from Social SPQ, especially those who lost their quality and turned into
> dogmatic rituals or way of thought WITHIN a certain society. This freedom
to
> answer the laws of Physics [regardless to a society's belief] is a freedom
> gained from this going up a level. What we loose is is that the active
agent
> is a social entity [a social institution], and in order to implement
> Cultural realizations we have to convince the social institutions to
accept
> what SPQ that were realized on the higher Cultural level.
> Now if we will look for the same patterns below the Biological level, we
can
> IMAGINE and SUGGEST [but not know], what freedom was gained by going up a
> level [from Inorganic to Biological]. Here the agent cannot be biological,
> it has to be of the "photonic" order. It has to apply to laws of gravity,
> and has to interact with any other entity of the same order [known as
> material]. It cannot move it cannot choose with whom to interact, SPQ like
> distinctions between Food [positive high quality interactions] and Poison
> [negative low quality interactions] and movement belong to the Biological
> order. But it looses in order to be part of an Organism [a Biological SPQ]
> it's photonic entity as individual, choosing when to disintegrate [when
> radioactive] or when to be energy or mass [as a photon].
> So here I want to stress three outcomes:
> 1. We don't know how many layers are [here Pirsig is mistaken]. We can
only
> imagine FROM OUR CURRENT POINT OF VIEW, four layers. But nobody can be
sure
> that there are more ladder steps in either directions.
> 2. If this model is right, then "the next freedom" will be freedom of
> Cultural SPQ, freedom of beliefs, freedom of ideas, but it will be managed
> by Cultural agents [complex creatures of the Cultural plane]
> 3. Complex creatures are complex only from our point of view, for a photon
> Biological creatures are complex.
> 4. These layers are not so independent as Pirsig potraited them. But this
is
> another Subject.
>
> and don't forget to be gentle
> Avid
> icq 6598359
>
>
>
>
>
> MOQ Online Homepage - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Unsubscribe - http://www.moq.org/md/index.html
> MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
>
MOQ Online Homepage - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Unsubscribe - http://www.moq.org/md/index.html
MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:03:09 BST