Re: MD Sophocles not Socrates

From: Monkeys' tail or (elkeaapheefteen@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Nov 01 2002 - 09:35:24 GMT


Sam,

thanx for the <standard>, defintely going to put it in my Moq-highlights
file. Further you wrote;

I think the transition from third level self to fourth level self is much of
what (historically) religious mysticism has been concerned with; I suspect
it is also what Nietzche is on about with his idea of the Ubermensch, but I
don't know Nietzche's work all that well (he's next on my reading
list).Under another aspect, I think it is also what St Paul is on about when
hetalks about 'the glorious freedom of the children of God' - but now
I'mgetting carried away! (I don't think it's an accident that I'm driving
this campaign; I don't think a Buddhist would have the same concern about
individuals).

The first sentence struck me greatly, I strongly suggest, before starting
reading Nietzsche you read a little book called ''essentials of mysticism''
from Evelyn Underhill which is loaded with the relation between the social
level and mysticism, that is one of the reasons that I argued for more
mysticism on the fourth. Especially touching this subject is the chapter
called <mystic and the corporate life>. Here's a quote p.40:

<Next, the demands made and restrictions imposed by the community on the
individual are good for mystics. Human beings are social right through, in
spirit as well in body and mind. Their most sublime spiritual experiences
are themselves social in type. The intercourse of a persons with a Person,
the merging of their narrow consciousness in a larrger consciousness, the
achievement of a divine sonship, a spiritual marriage: these are the highest
things that they can say concerning their achievement of Divine Reality. And
they all entail, not a narrow self-realization, but the breaking down of
barriers, the setting-up of wider relationships. It follows that the merging
of the self in the common life is an education for that merging in the
absolute life at which the mystic aims. Such self-mergence, and the training
in humility, self-denial, suppleness, which is involved in it, is held by
all ascetic teachers to be essential to the education of the human soul.
Union with, and to a certain extent submission to the Church, the family- to
life, in fact- an attitude of self giving surrender: this is the best of
preparations for that self negation of the soul that is ivolved in the Union
with God, that utter doing away of the I, the me, and the mine till it
becomes one will and love with the divine will and love.>

This is not the only quote as i said the book is loaded with these kind of
things.

About Nietzsche; his Ubermensch was definetely some sort of shift from
social to intellectual, only think of the infamous quote in Gay science;
<God is dead>. I read a few Nietzsche books but did not see much
simmilarities in level shifts, but maybe I did not have the right
perspective in that time. I can tell you that Nietzsche for me is
aetshetically the best ever, I love him, but his ideas are a bit too
aristocratic for me I guess. But you got love him for his personality and
style,

Davor

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