Re: MD Individuality

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Fri Nov 22 2002 - 16:15:41 GMT

  • Next message: Matt the Enraged Endorphin: "Re: MD Individuality"

    Hi Matt:

    Before going much further we have to get some "intersubjective
    agreement" on the meaning of words.

    MATT:
    > You took issue with what I called an "intuition." That's fine, but you
    > immediately begged the question in your favor on the larger issue of the
    > appearance-reality distinction. You claim you don't use an
    > appearance-reality distinction, but, as far as I can see, you do.
    >
    PLATT:
    > >Intuitions are first-order reality; language is second-order reality
    > >pointing to the first.
    >
    > >Pirsig's hot stove example illustrates the point: Quality is a
    > >preconceptual, prelinguistic reality. Words come after the direct
    > >experience, symbolizing the experience but in no way the experience
    > >itself.
    >
    > >I do make a distinction between language and reality
    >
    > >we're both talking about conceptions after perceptions, second
    > >order realities of "good dog" and "Basset Hound."
    >
    MATT:
    > These are all examples of an appearance-reality split.

    That's news to me. I understand the appearance-reality split to be
    exactly the same as the subject-object split and the mind-body split, all
    based on H.O I.E.-- Hypothesis of Independent Existence.

    So when I talk about intuitions, perceptions, conceptions, language,
    first and second order realities, I'm coming down on the appearance,
    subjective, mind side of the split or, if you prefer the Idealist, not Realist
    side.

    What is being split in all the above is the larger abstraction "Reality"
    which, as we all know, is "Quality" or "Morality" in the MoQ where a
    heretofore unheard of split occurs called static-dynamic.

    At the risk of raising your ire about my "assuredness," what don't I
    understand about the appearance-reality split as you see it?

    Incidentally, the concept of first-order, second-order reality comes from
    Paul Watzlawick's book, "How Real is Real?"

    Platt

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