RE: MD Can Only Humans Respond to DQ?

From: Glenn Bradford (gmbbradford@netscape.net)
Date: Sun Nov 24 2002 - 07:13:38 GMT

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    DMB says:
    "The manipulation of symbols that intellect can engage in goes way beyond the
    basic acquisition of language."

    I see your point, but mine is that Pirsig's definition of the
    intellectual level as merely "the manipulation of symbols" is useless
    if it's purpose is to distinguish itself from the social level. Leaving
    it undefined is better than this sorry attempt.

    DMB says:
    "SOM says that these subjective things are really real, whereas
    Pirsig's SOM says these "subjective" patterns are as real as rocks
    and trees."

    Maybe you were tired when you wrote this, David, as neither clause
    of your sentence makes sense according to the MOQ. I do like your
    inadvertent two word phrase "Pirsig's SOM", though.

    DMB says:
    "BUT the fact remains that these subjective patterns can't be measured
    in terms of physical attributes. Hooking candidates up to wires will
    not detect the President, only their sweat and breath, which is nothing
    more than the biological correlates of stress."

    I agree that "Hooking candidates up to wires will not detect the
    President", especially if neither candidate is actually the President:)
    A much better way, as I've explained, is to run their fingerprints.

    In a narrow, quantitative sense I agree that "subjective patterns can't
    be measured in terms of physical attributes", but some subjective patterns
    can be reasonably inferred from the measurements or observations of
    physical attributes, and sometimes machines can measure better than people
    can observe. This is why the best lie detectors are machines.
    Glenn

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