Re: MD (Wim is it.) Focus forum - round four

From: jhmau (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Tue Nov 26 2002 - 19:10:14 GMT

  • Next message: Wim Nusselder: "Re: MD Sophocles not Socrates"

    On 24 Nov 02 11:22PM Wim Nusselder at wim.susselder @ antenna.nl writes:

    Hi Wim

    > Dear Patrick,
    >
    > I don't want to be a spoilsport, so I'll provide you all with a quote for
    > round four, but I don't know if I will be able to participate much myself.
    > (I still have postings from two weeks ago to answer.) It is a quote that
    > more or less founds my understanding of 'patterns of values'.
    >
    > snip>

    > From 'Lila' chapter 9:
    > 'Phaedrus saw that not only a man recovering from a heart attack but also
    a
    > baby gazes at his hand with mystic wonder and delight. He remembered the
    > child Poincare referred to who could not understand the reality of
    objective
    > science at all but was able to understand the reality of value perfectly.
    > When this reality of value is divided into static and Dynamic areas a lot
    > can be explained about that baby's growth that is not well explained
    > otherwise.
    > One can imagine how an infant in the womb acquires awareness of simple
    > distinctions such as pressure and sound, and then at birth acquires more
    > complex ones of light and warmth and hunger. We know these distinctions
    are
    > pressure and sound and light and warmth and hunger and so on but the baby
    > doesn't. We could call them stimuli but the baby doesn't identify them as
    > that. From the baby's point of view, something, he knows not what, compels
    > attention. This generalized "something," White-head's "dim apprehension,"
    is
    > Dynamic Quality. When he is a few months old the baby studies his hand or
    a
    > rattle, not knowing it is a hand or a rattle, with the same sense of
    wonder
    > and mystery and excitement created by the music and heart attack in the
    > previous examples.

    joe:this seems to be a description of "the instinctive sensing of realiy."
    It answers a question--how can I learn?

    > If the baby ignores this force of Dynamic Quality it can be speculated
    that
    > he will become mentally retarded, but if he is normally attentive to
    Dynamic
    > Quality he will soon begin to notice differences and then correlations
    > between the differences and then repetitive patterns of the correlations.
    > But it is not until the baby is several months old that he will begin to
    > really understand enough about that enormously complex correlation of
    > sensations and boundaries and desires called an object to be able to reach
    > for one.

    joe:as a baby I am still instinctively sensing reality, and I instinctively
    sense the existence of the 'other' in a different place. I have developed
    an instinctive sense of 'existence.' My sense of the difference indicates a
    growth in self-awareness.

    This object will not be a primary experience. It will be a complex
    > pattern of static values derived from primary experience.

    joe:after many instinctive movements testing my body in sports and
    relationships, I become aware of an instinctive sense of 'purpose' or
    'direction' and reach for the 'other.' I grow further in self-awareness.

    > Once the baby has made a complex pattern of values called an object and
    > found this pattern to work well he quickly develops a skill and speed at
    > jumping through the chain of deductions that produced it, as though it
    were
    > a single jump.

    joe:i am self-aware in my instincts, or, perhaps, one instinct is aware of
    others, different instincts at difference times, and my self-awareness is a
    center or gravity so to speak. I become an individual acting "as though it
    were a single jump."

    >This is similar to the way one drives a car. The first time
    > there is a very slow trial-and-error process of seeing what causes what.
    But
    > in a very short time it becomes so swift one doesn't even think about it.
    > The same is true of objects. One uses these complex patterns the same way
    > one shifts a car, without thinking about them. Only when the shift doesn't
    > work or an "object" turns out to be an illusion is one forced to become
    > aware of the deductive process. That is why we think of subjects and
    objects
    > as primary. We can't remember that period of our lives when they were
    > anything else.

    joe:my instincts can be trained, and at a certain point I am changed. The
    beginning of an intellectual order of self-awareness when I instinctively
    sense "illusion" or "object." Maybe I develop an instinctive "curiosity" or
    "caring."

    > In this way static patterns of value become the universe of
    distinguishable
    > things. Elementary static distinctions, between such entities as "before"
    > and "after" and between "like" and "unlike" grow into enormously complex
    > patterns of knowledge that are transmitted from generation to generation
    as
    > the mythos, the culture in which we live.'

    joe:I create myself more or less with a hell of a lot of help, and I am not
    alone! "My aloneness" is a common misconception and I seek "celebrity"
    though it will be nothing new as I have already been created by it.

    > With friendly greetings,
    >
    > Wim

    joe

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