From: Elizaphanian (Elizaphanian@members.v21.co.uk)
Date: Sat Nov 30 2002 - 11:55:03 GMT
Hi David,
> ... The question is whether or not "all
> humans have intellect", but this quote only says that all four levels
exist
> together in the same person, not every person.
The RMP response is to a discussion about whether a lower level can
recognise a higher level. The inital comment, from 'Doug' is:
"To me there are three glaring examples in Lila of the social level being
aware of the intellectual level:
1. Pirsig's extended discussion on the battle between the Züni priests and
the brujo. The social immune system was "aware" of the new intellectual
pattern threat to their control by the brujo's new ideas.
2. Pirsig's brief mention of the same thing happening to Joan of Arc.
3. Pirsig's brief mention of the same thing happening to Galileo. This
example certainly juxtaposes the Catholic Church condemning Galileo for his
intellectual threat to their "non-intellectual flat earth-centric"
traditional social patterns. Many within the Church then and now condemn
intellectual freedom of belief and/or thought.
I see these as examples of a lower level keenly aware of a higher level. I
also think there are other examples of other levels, too. "
Pirsig's full response is:
"After the beginning of history inorganic, biological, social and
intellectual patterns are found existing together in the same person. I
think the conflicts mentioned here are intellectual conflicts in which one
side clings to an intellectual justification of existing social patterns and
the other side intellectually opposes the existing social patterns. A social
pattern which would be unaware of the next higher level would be found among
prehistoric people and the higher primates when they exhibit social learning
that is not genetically hard-wired but yet is not symbolic."
I think it's pretty clear that Pirsig is saying that anyone in a
non-prehistoric culture is aware of (or better 'participates in')
intellectual patterns, and that this would include Lila. (And that the
intellectual level does not begin with Socrates, as you claim, it begins at
'the beginning of history'). It's amazing the lengths you're going to to try
and justify a rhetorical statement! Are you really arguing that Lila is not
a person?
Sam
www.elizaphanian.v-2-1.net/home.html
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