From: Elizaphanian (Elizaphanian@members.v21.co.uk)
Date: Wed Dec 04 2002 - 11:14:11 GMT
Hi Wim,
I thought you had the other passage in mind! However, I don't think Pirsig
is someone who has engaged with Christianity in any depth - which isn't
really a criticism, it's something he shares with the majority of the
(academic thinkers in the) Western World. I didn't think there was much
merit in directly engaging with his comments on the eucharist, but I will if
you want me to. (Essentially he's repeating the post 12th century account of
the 'real', which I've written on elsewhere). I suppose for me (and
therefore, for 'my tradition' within Anglicanism - which, by the way, is now
represented at the highest level in Rowan Williams, the new Archbishop of
Canterbury) I would say that it is only when you are conformed to God that
you meet God in the Eucharist, ie, only when you are open to DQ that DQ can
flow through you. Which is circular reasoning, but not destructively so I
think. So in traditional terms, the Body of Christ in the Eucharist can only
be perceived mystically, ie by the eyes of faith. No scientific instrument
could detect it - the notion is self-defeating. (perhaps it's an
intellectual pattern....)
Surely, much of the 'effect' of ritual words is through repetition, but
there's a difference between a mantra and christian prayer (although
hesychastic prayer is very close to the use of mantras). The cognitive
content of the words is important, and that is how it is possible to 'pray'
through the Bible. For me, the prologue to John's gospel tends to work: even
though I know the words already, it always pushes me forwards.
I take Eckhart's point to be the same as a 'means/ends' distinction, ie the
difference between the finger and the moon. And our feelings when we carry
out the practices are all at the level of the finger.
I agreed with your final comments.
Sam
"Ask yourselves when are we going to see the first journal of bio-hacking
oriented toward teenage males, so they can create molecules in their
bedroom. Well, that journal came out in 1998. Be very afraid." (Bill Joy)
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