From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Wed Dec 04 2002 - 22:26:39 GMT
Dear Sam,
You wrote 4/12 11:14 -0000:
'I would say that it is only when you are conformed to God that you meet God
in the Eucharist, ie, only when you are open to DQ that DQ can flow through
you.'
Do you need the Eucharist to meet God if you are 'conformed to God'? (Can I
translate 'conformed to God' to 'open to divine guidance'?)
I'd say that DQ 'evolves' your patterns, if you identify with their
versatility rather than their stability, whatever the patterns you identify
with. No, maybe not with their versatility, but rather with the harmony with
higher level patterns of value (and with new-patterns-about-to-crystallize
when you are talking about 4th level patterns of value) that informs the
balance between versatility and stability.
If we can meet God in whatever religious forms we choose (but we have to
choose!), how can we champion some forms (even our own choice -Eucharist,
meeting in silence etc.) as more valuable than others?
In the words of William Penn which I quoted before (and which do not, by the
way, imply a belief in 'life after death' for me):
'"The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of
one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one
another, though the divers liveries they wear here makes them strangers."
(1693)'
How can we choose one 'livery' over the other if it is only the 'soul'
within that counts?
I think we do and should choose the religious forms that 'fit' our own
openness/conformity to God. From our own viewpoint we can describe our
increasing openness/conformity by describing our 'road' from less to more
valuable religious forms. For me that was a road from the Reformed Churches
in the Netherlands to (through?) the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers).
For you it was -if I remember rightly- a road from atheism to (through?)
Anglicanism. Description that turns into prescription of such a 'road' for
others, suggestion that increasing openness/conformity is dependant on
choosing the right 'road' denies that it is the 'traveler that counts
rather than the 'road'. Another 'traveler may travel the same 'road' in
exactly the opposite direction to express his becoming a 'humble, meek,
merciful, just, pious and devout soul'.
So, if we go on to describe 'static and Dynamic aspects of religion and
mysticism', we should try to describe static and Dynamic aspects of
ourselves rather than of the religious forms we've chosen. Agree?
And ... what informs our experience of 'balance' between these aspects?
You asked 18/11 19:34 -0000 what 'lower rungs' of Christian faith remain
necessary according to me 'to prevent the ladder from falling apart'.
- the mind set of 'faith' itself, with its connotations of 'trust',
'promise', 'loyalty' and 'sincerity'
- a plot or narrative backbone of 'continuing revelation' (of history as an
arrow rather than a circle)
- a calling to own activity of the Christian (as response to revelation)
I would add that the 'ladder' is not exclusively Christian. It may also need
non- or pre-Christian rungs to prevent it from falling apart... The notion
of 'good' and 'evil', of moral choice, for instance.
You wrote 18/11 19:34 -0000:
'From my point of view the preservation of high quality static latches
requires educated judgement, judgement educated by the inculcation of
(static) religious patterns (ie third level religion, AND then fourth level
religion AND then mystical teachings). A healthy religion achieves all those
things in a harmonious form. Put differently, the preservation of third
level static latches is the equivalent of the prophet hanging onto good
building blocks and discarding the bad. The fourth level training is to see
that they ARE building blocks, and to see the moon rather than the finger.
The fifth level is to see that you are the moon.... or a LUNAtic of course
(-;'
I agree IF I may add that judgement is not exclusively educated by
inculcation of RELIGIOUS patterns of value. There are lots of other social
institutions besides religious ones (school, sports, work etc.) that can
inculcate social patterns of values. Religious institutions are not required
at all in almost any part of the world any more.
On the intellectual level science is -I think- much better able than most
religion in inculcating intellectual patterns of value. In the main
(dominant) societies it is in a much better position to do so (ringing more
'true' in the ears of most people than religion) and in most societies it
has still ample scope to 'evolve' social patterns of value by offering the
choice to become more 'rational', 'scientific' and 'modern'.
It is only when we try to jump to the moon, if we seek emergent/potential
patterns of value beyond the 4th level, that religion -with art- can be said
to be almost the only way available to us and thus to be 'required' to
statically latch such patterns of value and 'inform' intellectual progress
... only to find that we are considered lunatics by others, as long as there
is no 5th level of stable and versatile patterns of values beyond intellect.
Only when religion (like art) seeks and accepts this role of 'lunacy' (and
abandons the role of maintaining 4th and 3th level patterns of values to
science etc.) can it found a 5th level.
'Lunacy' implies being inspired by something beyond comprehension. If that
'something' for you is primarily the Eucharist, so be it. For me it is the
'contradictory identity' of humans with humanity and with creation as a
whole, the experience of the divine as 'something' that connects everyone
and everything 'shining through' the experience of diversity and conflict.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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