RE: MD Progression and benevolence

From: Kevin (kevin@xap.com)
Date: Sat Dec 14 2002 - 00:28:10 GMT

  • Next message: Matt the Enraged Endorphin: "RE: MD Progression and benevolence"

    Matt:
    I share a lot of your questions about Dynamic Quality. I've come to the
    opinion that we can't tell what is Dynamic and what is degenerate until,
    as Platt recognizes, enough time has past. But I think this then means
    that Dynamic Quality is a label we put on things after they've happened
    to denote moral superiority. I don't think this means our labeling is
    arbitrary, it is simply descriptive from our present context.

    To save Dynamic Quality as a term to describe present human behavior, I
    think we can use it in our own lives to describe the feelings and
    impressions we have about things that "just seem to be better." But
    what "just seems better" to us now, may end up being extremely
    degenerate. I'm sure Hitler might have employed Dynamic Quality to
    describe his feelings about Jews, but it has been shown pretty
    conclusively (even from the world-context Hitler was in) that he was
    pretty degenerate. The point is that I think history will be the judge
    and jury of Dynamic Quality and I don't think any case will ever solved
    and closed with any sense of absolute, ahistorical certainty.

    So, I think of Dynamic Quality as a descritive label, rather than as a
    prescriptive term that has any force. For if we use DQ to describe our
    actions in the present, and provide an argument for why we predict that
    history will judge in favor of us, I think all the persuasive force is
    from the argument, not from the use of the label DQ.

    Kevin:
    Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I think we approach the issue from
    a common angle. Namely, a pragmatic one.

    (I must confess that I personally substitute the word TAO for Quality or
    DQ when I read Pirsig. It must be a limitation of my own nature that I
    am unable to shake the subjective connotations that I have for the word
    'quality'. Since I have no a priori definitions of TAO (being a lowly
    westerner) it makes it easier for me to maintain the mystic/unknowable
    aspect of the Universe.)

    Anyhow, once again I'm reminded of the Chinese proverb I quoted to begin
    this line of questioning:

    There once was a farmer in China who had an ox. One day the ox ran away.
    All his neighbors came to console him, but he was not distressed. He
    told them, "Good luck, bad luck, who knows?" A few days later the ox
    returned and with it was a horse. All his neighbors came to him to
    congratulate him on his good fortune, but again he would not mind them
    telling them, "Good luck, bad luck, who knows?" A week later his son was
    riding the horse, fell and broke his arm. Again the neighbors came to
    wish him condolences and tell him how very unlucky he was. The farmer
    shook his head and said, "Good luck, bad luck, who knows?" A few days
    later, war was declared and all able-bodied young men were conscripted,
    but because on his son's broken arm, he was not. "Good luck, bad luck,
    who knows?"

    This would go along with Platt's comment about time vindicating our
    choices (or assumptions about choices) and your comment that "we can't
    tell" until time as passed. In each instance, the Farmer refrains from
    ascribing Benevolence or Malevolence to the Universe. When the ox runs
    away, the Farmer does NOT bemoan the 'unfairness' of it all. Perhaps
    even more telling, IMO, is that the Farmer does NOT take the opposite
    view either, i.e. expressing the sentiment that "It will work out for
    the best" or "God works in mysterious ways" or some other ascription of
    Hope. The Farmer instead (and wisely, IMO) withholds his own petty,
    finite, limited perspective and judgment and allows for the Universe to
    decide whether this thing is bad or good.

    The Farmer awaits the TAO.

    With effort to be patient,
    Kevin

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Dec 14 2002 - 00:28:24 GMT