From: Barritt (mbarritt@nc.rr.com)
Date: Mon Dec 23 2002 - 02:30:53 GMT
A lot of logos, instead of mythos, posting on this board...
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: MD Systematic about the Sophists
> Matt:
>
> I just don't see the problem. By analogy, I emerged from my mother, but am
> quite distinct from her. The intellect emerged from the mythos, but is
quite
> distinct from it. No problem. Even in ZAMM Pirsig certainly recognizes
that
> a very important shift in consciousness was happened around Plato's time.
> The fact that he later, in Lila, describes that shift as the beginning of
a
> whole new level of reality only strengthens the distinction and serves to
> explain so many conflicts and confusions in our world. Did you see
> yesterday's batch of quotes from Pirsig, Campbell and others? Please take
a
> look at that. I hope to add some comments to help put them together, but
> they almost stand on their own. The point I'll be trying to convey is that
> logos not only emerged out of the mythos, in Plato's day the heart of the
> project was about explaining the myths in a way that makes sense to the
> philosophers. Their intellectual activity was focused on their myths. It
was
> a spiritual project. Hopefully this will help to show the relationship
> between mythos and logos. Please stay tuned.
>
> DMB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin [mailto:mpkundert@students.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:12 AM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: RE: MD Systematic about the Sophists
>
>
> DMB,
>
> In answer to the dilemma I posed, you chose to follow Bo in repudiating
> that bit of ZMM or, rather, translating it or updating it or, dare I say,
> strongly misreading it. This is, obviously, perfectly exceptable.
> However, I don't think you've fully realized the consequences of your
> choice.
>
> I said before that, "the mythos-over-logos argument is the argument for
> continuity between Reason and Myth, logos and mythos, dialectic and
> rhetoric." As I understand, that's what the argument represents. No
> discrete break. The MoQ argues for a discrete break. So, I agree when
you
> say, "There really is no problem with the logos being BOTH emergent from
> and different than the mythos." Certainly. Never claimed there was. I
> said, "Indeed, there isn't a problem with emergence. Its when the
> mythos-over-logos argument continues by saying, 'Thus, logos is simply a
> continuation of the mythos,' that a problem emerges." The MoQ can say
that
> logos is emergent from the mythos. That's not controversial. That was
the
> typical interpretation offered by the Greeks all the way to the present
> until people started offering the mythos-over-logos argument in contrast
to
> the usual interpretation. The interpretation that the MoQ offers is
> essentially logos-over-mythos. The Intellect level is morally superior to
> the Social level. The mythos-over-logos interpretation says that neither
> is morally superior over the other.
>
> On the interpretation you wish to give, I think you must get rid of the
> mythos-over-logos argument because it simply does not fit. Pirsig
would've
> been right if he had said that the MoQ agrees with the mythos-over-logos
> thesis INSOFAR as the logos and intellect level are emergent out of the
> mythos and social level, respectively. But that assertion isn't really
the
> core of the mythos-over-logos argument. The "mythos OVER logos" part is.
>
> Matt
>
>
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