Re: MD Systematic about the Sophists

From: Barritt (mbarritt@nc.rr.com)
Date: Mon Dec 23 2002 - 02:30:53 GMT

  • Next message: Matt the Enraged Endorphin: "RE: MD Systematic about the Sophists"

    A lot of logos, instead of mythos, posting on this board...

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:08 PM
    Subject: RE: MD Systematic about the Sophists

    > Matt:
    >
    > I just don't see the problem. By analogy, I emerged from my mother, but am
    > quite distinct from her. The intellect emerged from the mythos, but is
    quite
    > distinct from it. No problem. Even in ZAMM Pirsig certainly recognizes
    that
    > a very important shift in consciousness was happened around Plato's time.
    > The fact that he later, in Lila, describes that shift as the beginning of
    a
    > whole new level of reality only strengthens the distinction and serves to
    > explain so many conflicts and confusions in our world. Did you see
    > yesterday's batch of quotes from Pirsig, Campbell and others? Please take
    a
    > look at that. I hope to add some comments to help put them together, but
    > they almost stand on their own. The point I'll be trying to convey is that
    > logos not only emerged out of the mythos, in Plato's day the heart of the
    > project was about explaining the myths in a way that makes sense to the
    > philosophers. Their intellectual activity was focused on their myths. It
    was
    > a spiritual project. Hopefully this will help to show the relationship
    > between mythos and logos. Please stay tuned.
    >
    > DMB
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin [mailto:mpkundert@students.wisc.edu]
    > Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 9:12 AM
    > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    > Subject: RE: MD Systematic about the Sophists
    >
    >
    > DMB,
    >
    > In answer to the dilemma I posed, you chose to follow Bo in repudiating
    > that bit of ZMM or, rather, translating it or updating it or, dare I say,
    > strongly misreading it. This is, obviously, perfectly exceptable.
    > However, I don't think you've fully realized the consequences of your
    > choice.
    >
    > I said before that, "the mythos-over-logos argument is the argument for
    > continuity between Reason and Myth, logos and mythos, dialectic and
    > rhetoric." As I understand, that's what the argument represents. No
    > discrete break. The MoQ argues for a discrete break. So, I agree when
    you
    > say, "There really is no problem with the logos being BOTH emergent from
    > and different than the mythos." Certainly. Never claimed there was. I
    > said, "Indeed, there isn't a problem with emergence. Its when the
    > mythos-over-logos argument continues by saying, 'Thus, logos is simply a
    > continuation of the mythos,' that a problem emerges." The MoQ can say
    that
    > logos is emergent from the mythos. That's not controversial. That was
    the
    > typical interpretation offered by the Greeks all the way to the present
    > until people started offering the mythos-over-logos argument in contrast
    to
    > the usual interpretation. The interpretation that the MoQ offers is
    > essentially logos-over-mythos. The Intellect level is morally superior to
    > the Social level. The mythos-over-logos interpretation says that neither
    > is morally superior over the other.
    >
    > On the interpretation you wish to give, I think you must get rid of the
    > mythos-over-logos argument because it simply does not fit. Pirsig
    would've
    > been right if he had said that the MoQ agrees with the mythos-over-logos
    > thesis INSOFAR as the logos and intellect level are emergent out of the
    > mythos and social level, respectively. But that assertion isn't really
    the
    > core of the mythos-over-logos argument. The "mythos OVER logos" part is.
    >
    > Matt
    >
    >
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