Re: MD Pirsig a liberal?

From: Matt the Enraged Endorphin (mpkundert@students.wisc.edu)
Date: Sat Jan 04 2003 - 01:24:52 GMT

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    Platt,

    >DMB wrote:
    >As I understand it, Pirsig does say that the more liberal ideologies, that
    >one's that would tend to concern themselves with feed and educate the
    >poor, are more moral than the one's that don't.
    >
    >Matt wrote:
    >I agree that Pirsig says liberal ideologies are more moral than others.
    >
    >Would either of you gentlemen care to back up your assertion with
    >evidence? I've looked in Lila and can find none. Rather, Pirsig seems to
    >contradict your assertion when he says:
    >
    >"To put philosophy in the service of any social organization or any
    >dogma is immoral." (29)

    Two points:

    I took my agreement to mean two things:

    DMB said: "that one's that would tend to concern themselves with feed and
    educate the poor, are more moral than the one's that don't."

    As a starter, Pirsig says, "Cultures can be graded and judged morally
    according to their contribution to the evolution of life." (Ch 24, end)

    I would think that feeding the poor (social control over biological) and
    educating them (intellectual control over social) would be a Quality thing
    to try and do. If its not, then I hesitate to ask what Quality stands for.

    And two, DMB said: "the more liberal ideologies ... are more moral than the
    one's that don't."

    I take liberal to mean two things: Shklar's definition of liberal, "Cruelty
    is the worst thing one can do," and classical liberalism which says that we
    should stay as much as possible out of each other's private business. I
    think the two are completely compatible, and its partly why, I think,
    Pirsig endorses capitalism as he does. More private free time equals more
    chances to be Dynamic.

    That's why I agreed. However, I don't speak for DMB on this issue, as most
    of the discussions about Pirsig's political position spiral out of control
    quite quickly, and I don't want to become wrapped up in that. I don't
    think what I'm saying is controversial at all.

    This is all besides the fact that I don't think what you quoted ("To put
    philosophy in the service of any social organization or any dogma is
    immoral.") has anything to do with what DMB asserted. If I interpret this
    as you have, Pirsig's talking about philosophy and ideologies. I suspect
    that Pirsig would agree that there are idealogies that are more moral than
    others. I get that from the quote I used above. What your quote disbars
    is using a government institution to promote, say, the MoQ. We have a
    moral right to believe and discuss any philosophy we want. That's also
    commensurate with my interpretation of liberalism from above.

    Matt

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