From: Gert-Jan Peeters (gjpeeters@wish.nl)
Date: Sat Jan 11 2003 - 12:44:11 GMT
Platt
> Do you see the influx of Muslims in the
> Netherlands to be a growing threat to your society's values?
GJ
Well.. For I am Dutch too, I feel like having to respond to your questions.
First of all.. Your question is being asked a lot around here. Especially
right after the tower-thing that happened in America. Are Muslims a threat
to the Dutch society? The first thing that happened was a realization that
we dutch people don't even recognize our society. What's left of those
good-old-values we once had? One thing the muslims bring to our country is a
kind of a structure of the social level we lost over the years during our
battle for intellectual freedom.
A lot of us don't recognize the 'good' in this 'holding on to familie
values' and we call this structure 'old-fashion' and 'a step back' wich
doesn't sound that odd using moq terms.
Examples of things that are currently going on in our little country are as
follows. There are commercials on tv that tells us "Society? Thats You!"
Just before Pim Fortuyn was killed the politics asked 'What are our values?"
and "Should we talk about that in the government?" Another example that fits
in a moq pov is the growing of violence on the street. I believe we had six
people beaten to death without any explainable reason, over the last four
years. Last time, a few months ago, some bloke tried to help an old lady
while she was bothered by some nasty guys. According to the press that is.
The guys killed him.
Well.. there is a lot talking about what is going on with us and what should
be done about it. Nobody knows so we are trying this and that without any
structure.. Something is wrong and we all know it. We fought ourselves free
during the sixties and kicked against every social value there was. Now we
are completely lost and almost destroyed the step of the ladder that brought
us here. The social step that is the foundation of the intellectual level.
Without the social level there is no intellectual level and we fall back
into the biological level. Thus beating up the ones who are in our way.
What we need is a social structure again. And there comes the muslim. They
have this social structure and are able to maintain it so far. But not all.
You see the youth growing further towards a more familie-free existence that
looks a lot like our struggle during the sixties. Included with al its
problems. The second thing you see is that the dutch youth is growing
towards the muslim values. I work in the weekends in this disco where both
groups are present. (although not equally in numbers) If you only look at
the clothes the youth wears one can tell that both groups are growing
towards each other. Still both groups are divided. Not by color, not by
religion, but by values. They have some values we need and we have some
values they need. For example.. getting a firm step in the social level like
the muslims have is a good thing. If it will grow to big and destroy our
intellectual freedom its a bad thing. Same goes for the Muslims.. Their
youth recognize the good in intellectual freedom but are afraid they'll
become as screwed as we are at the moment. A cat with dogfood tied on its
back looking angry at a dog with catfood tied on its back. If the cat and
dog don't start eating they will die from starvation. If one of the animals
kill the other, its the old-fashion survival of the fittest and also a
slowing down of evolution. A waste of time that costs to many lifes.
So if you ask are muslims a threat to our society, my answer will be: Mu..
They can destroy us and we can destroy them. In both cases we gain nothing.
We can help them and they can help us.
But since this thread is about absolutism i'd like to add that absolutism is
a pattern-thing. And Like with science you must use boundaries to make
statements. With to many exceptions you have no science. Without absolutism
you have no structure where you can work in. This thread is showing
perfectly that we use absolutes to communicate. Therefore, absolutes are
merely tools. Patterns or steps that you use to climb up. With enough time
one can prove that our most absolute thing isn't that absolute annymore. But
it served its purpose and new absolutes came in its place. If we should all
agree with this, we have reached an absolute. It takes one to disagree to
take us all a step further. :-)
GJ
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