Re: [Spam] Re: MD the metaphysics of free enterprise

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Fri Aug 06 2004 - 23:52:54 BST

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    Johnny

    But don't we need to see consciousness in a
    broader way than simply human consciousness.
    See what you think of this:

    http://www.peterussell.com/SG/IONS.html

    regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:57 PM
    Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: MD the metaphysics of free enterprise

    > Hi David,
    >
    > >Hi Johnny
    > >
    > >I think you might be getting the MOQ confused with Idealism,
    > >what does existence mean in the MOQ, I cannot recall
    > >much reference to this by Pirsig? any relevant quotes you have in mind?
    > >What physics do you have in mind?
    >
    > Well, they are very similar, and they both say that the world "out
    there"'s
    > existence is dependent on consciousness experiencing it. I think Idealism
    > has a misunderstood connotation of things being able to be conjured into
    > existence willy-nilly, but it has the same obedience to necessity that
    that
    > MoQ has.
    >
    > In SOM, the rock exists as a rock, in the MoQ, the rock exists as a
    pattern
    > of value that morally expects a rock to exist, in Idealism, the rock
    exists
    > as an idea of a rock. In all three, the foot can kick the rock.
    >
    > The physics I am thinking of is John Archibald Wheeler's "participatory
    > universe" and "It From Bit" theory. Wheeler was a contemporary of
    Einstein
    > and is still alive and he's no nut (my dad kind of thinks he's a nut, he's
    a
    > physicist too and saw his talk and had dinner with him once). It from Bit
    > says that this an information-based universe, with everything being a
    binary
    > yes or no response to questions asked by a consciousness. Those binary
    yes
    > an no's are basically to the question of "should this pattern continue or
    > not".
    >
    > Johnny
    >
    > >----- Original Message -----
    > >From: "johnny moral" <johnnymoral@hotmail.com>
    > >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > >Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 8:46 PM
    > >Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: MD the metaphysics of free enterprise
    > >
    > >
    > > > >Hi Johnny
    > > > >
    > > > >So say we discover a new type of tree.
    > > > >Was it there before we discovered it?
    > > > >Well it grew somehow!
    > > > >
    > > > >DM
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > In SOM, yes, it was there before. In MoQ (and modern physics), no, it
    > > > wasn't. Its existence and its history are newly created high quality
    > > > patterns.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Johnny
    >
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