RE: MD "linear causality"

From: Erin N. (enoonan@kent.edu)
Date: Sun Jan 12 2003 - 19:22:45 GMT

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD No to absolutism"

    >Erin said:
    >Where does Pirsig say science has found the Real Way towards Truth?
    >I think Pirisg points out the art of science, pointing
    >out the aspect of creating the truth not just finding
    >the truth in facts about arts.
    >If that is bringing science up or down probably depends
    >on your opinion of art;-)
    >
    >Matt:
    >One of the passages I'm thinking of is in ZMM Ch. 19 (beginning) when
    >Pirsig discusses the choice between making Quality in the subject or
    >object. "Because if Quality exists in the object, then you must explain
    >just why scientific instruments are unable to detect it." This establishes
    >the tight link between the object and objectivity and science. "On the
    >other hand, if Quality is subjective, existing only in the observer, then
    >this Quality that you make so much of is just a fancy name for whatever you
    >like." This establishes the opposite link and the derision.
    >
    >Pirsig does point out the art of science, which is why there is an ego
    >readjustment for scientists who thought that science was "above" art. What
    >I'm suggesting is that people with residual scientism, while possibly
    >enjoying art, look down on it as a cultural activity insofar as artists
    >claim to be adding something to Knowledge or Truth. For them, science is
    >the only activity that can lead to Knowledge and Truth, and for the most
    >part, following Plato's lead, they think that that is the highest pursuit
    >of all. What a philosopher like Pirsig wants to do is say, "Wait, wait,
    >wait. Knowledge and Truth are the highest pursuits, but science does not
    >have a monopoly on this." I'm arguing that the language Pirsig uses to
    >open up the pursuit of Knowledge and Truth implies the expansion of the
    >meaning of science. I'm further saying that I wish he hadn't done this,
    >that it would have been better for him to say that their are different
    >kinds of knowledge and that science provides knowledge of one kind and
    >literary criticism of another.

    I don't know Matt, I think I agree with what you
    are saying Pirsig did do but don't quite clearly
    see why its a bad thing. In a post a long time ago I talked about this
    lecture I saw in college called "The Story of
    Evolution as an Epic of Creativity". I think it is not only valid but helpful
    to notice the story-like aspects of the evolution.
    So I am not completely sold on seeing stories and science as separate yet.
    I think I also viewed science as a narrow/specialized approach
    rather then down or up approach. With this specialized approach you can go
    into
    great depth into one tiny area of knowledge.
    I see the value in being specialized for scientists
    but to me the great scientists were interested
    in a a large scope in addition to depth.
    Seeing the stories in science and the science in
    stories doesn't seem so bad?

    erin

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