Re: MD Plotinus, Pirsig and Wilber

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Aug 17 2004 - 19:33:34 BST

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    Scott said:
    Of course, the Plotinian has the opposite challenge of explaining how
    the intellect can materialize...

    DM: My view on this relates to how SQ can emerge from DQ.
    The answer is simple. DQ withdraws. DQ is creativity/change/flux.
    When does flux end, when DQ withdraws, when instead of flux the
    same again occurs, why does it repeat and occur again and form
    patterns, because DQ has found value in its creativity, it has
    looked upon itself and found itself to have beauty and value, DQ
    falls in love with itself, DQ is captiviated by its own outpourings
    and captures itself in its own gaze, it looks, the look is the
    beginning of duration, what was flux is held for a moment of duration
    and sameness, and hence DQ is born.

    regards
    David Morey

    regards
    David M

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Paul Turner" <paul@turnerbc.co.uk>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:19 PM
    Subject: RE: MD Plotinus, Pirsig and Wilber

    > Hi Scott
    >
    > I have a feeling this dialogue will end up with you telling me that
    > consciousness is too mysterious to be explained, and I kind of agree,
    > but it's fun anyway.
    >
    > Scott said:
    > Of course, the Plotinian has the opposite challenge of explaining how
    > the intellect can materialize...
    >
    > Paul:
    > As, in its system, intellect is no more the fundamental source of
    > reality than matter, the MOQ avoids this challenge.
    >
    > Scott said:
    > ...but I don't see any logical impossibility involved, whereas I do with
    > the problem of conscious emergence. (Our perceptions are extended --
    > have spatio-temporality, but if they are perceptions *of* the extended,
    > passed to us by tiny signals (photons, etc.) then there is nothing
    > spatio-temporal that can grasp the extended whole as a whole, since
    > every event (e.g. an electron absorbing a photon, a nerve cell firing)
    > is separated from every other event.
    >
    > Paul:
    > Just because the inorganic and biological levels are presumed to behave
    > according to intellectually constructed rules of space and time, there
    > is nothing in the MOQ which forces other levels to follow those rules.
    > Social patterns overcame the restrictions of physical biological
    > patterns, hence, intellectual consciousness does not need to follow
    > these rules. Also, intellectual patterns are created by perception of
    > Quality, not photons.
    >
    > Scott said:
    > It makes more sense to say that space and time are products of
    > perception, that is, consciousness is what makes the material (the
    > spatio-temporal) material).
    >
    > Paul:
    > Agreed i.e. space and time are basic intellectual patterns that make
    > great sense of inorganic and biological value.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >
    >
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