From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Aug 19 2004 - 20:08:12 BST
Scott
On QM, I don't think that is the solution.
Take Young's double slit experiment.
I take this as showing that between being fired
and hitting the wall on the other side of the slits,
an electron experiences all its possible routes
to the wall, these real possibilities interfere with
each other and causes the interference pattern to
apply to what we usually think of as a single elctron but
I suggest we think of it as a given range of possibilities
as real but only one becoming actual. DQ is a many and
an SQ event is a one. This is Prigogine's view I believe.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: MD Plotinus, Pirsig and Wilber
> Paul,
>
> > Scott said:
> > I am pointing out that if we assume that our sense perceptions are
> > caused by
> > spatio-temporal things and events, and those spatio-temporal events are
> > all
> > that is real, then there couldn't be sense perceptions, since sense
> > perceptions require continuity.
> >
> > Paul:
> > Right, but the MOQ doesn't assume that sense perceptions are caused by
> > spatio-temporal events nor does it assume spatio-temporal events are all
> > that is real.
>
> What I was arguing against is the idea that consciousness could emerge
from
> the non-conscious, which, you are correct, is not a MOQ claim. But it is a
> Darwinian claim, with which the MOQ "has no quarrel". As I see it, my
> argument is an out-and-out quarrel with Darwinism, while the MOQ just
> ignores this issue, and hence has no basis for a philosophy of mind. In my
> view, one should not only just not assume that spatio-temporal events are
> all that is real, but actually show the necessity of the
> non-spatio-temporal, which the MOQ does not do, as far as I am aware.
>
> >
> > Why do sense perceptions *require* continuity? For some reason, I am
> > thinking about the arguments of the ancient Greeks about this, Zeno's
> > paradox and such, although I forget the detail.
>
> Because sense perceptions are extended and have parts, but are perceived
as
> wholes. One perceives a melody, one doesn't perceive a note, then another
> note, and then in a separate act put them together. Or one can focus on a
> note, but it extends through time also. This putting together happens
> subconsciously, if it can be said to "happen" at all.
>
> There is a strong relation to Zeno's paradoxes, which are basically
> pointing out the problem of the one and the many. Zeno's solution is to
> drop the many. The materialist's is to drop the one. But as I see it if
you
> drop either, you can't have sense perception (where the one is continuity
> and the many is change). The MOQ does not address the problem, even in
> Chapter 8, where other platypi are supposedly resolved.
>
> (By the way, not that it is really germaine, but it is often said that
> modern mathematics, in particular the mathematics of limits, has resolved
> Zeno's paradoxes. First, it only applies to some (like Achilles and the
> Tortoise), but actually the resolution depends on mathematical constructs
> (the infnitesimal) that would not apply if quantum mechanics is valid. In
> QM there is, so to speak, a shortest length and shortest time, where for
> anything less than that. the laws of spacetime, and these mathematical
> constructs, don't work.)
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
>
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