RE: MD The individual in the MOQ

From: Paul Turner (paul@turnerbc.co.uk)
Date: Mon Aug 23 2004 - 10:01:48 BST

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    Ham

    Ham said:
    Paul's statement clearly places mind outside the realm of matter
    (physical reality), giving it a valuistic basis. Correct me if I'm
    wrong, Paul, but are you not saying that this "grounding in value" is
    common to both "mind" and "physical reality"?

    Paul:
    Yes.

    Ham said:
    If that is true, and physical (material) reality is what the mind
    experiences, does it not follow that our reality is essentially the
    "ground of Value"?

    Paul:
    At the risk of provoking another accusation of "playing endless word
    games," the MOQ assumes that value is the ground of reality i.e. there
    is no reality other than or prior to value that could be said to be the
    *ground of value*.

    Ham said:
    It's only conjecture on my part, of course, but I think Pirsig "wants"
    to posit an "esthetic" reality but is afraid to do so

    Paul:
    His system begins with the postulation that Reality and Quality are
    synonymous, he isn't holding anything back.

    Ham said:
    Hence, Platt, he has stopped short of providing us with the logical
    conclusion to his theory. His Quality -- even as a "dynamic system"--
    doesn't measure up to the Absolute Source we're looking for. And you
    folks are all left hanging.

    Okay, now put on your boxing gloves!

    Paul:
    Put the gloves down and pick up your reading glasses:

    "He was no longer talking about a metaphysical trinity but an absolute
    monism. Quality was the source and substance of everything." [ZMM, Ch20]

    Are you suggesting that Pirsig needs to postulate another source of the
    source of everything?

    Regards

    Paul

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