Re: MD MOQ and Logic/Science

From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Aug 24 2004 - 17:16:54 BST

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    MSH, All:

    > On 23 Aug 2004 at 14:50, Platt Holden wrote:
    > msh says:
    > Well, all I can tell you is that he was a Philosopher, not a
    > scientist. As far as I know he never advanced a scientific theory of any
    > sort. Maybe you should read up on him; or you might choose not to. ;-)

    I've read up on him a lot, mostly critiques of his "philosophy.".

    > platt said:
    > The next question to Popper is: According to what theory are "facts"
    > to be defined that one can use to falsify a theory? Recall that
    > Pirsig says "Even the facts that people observe to confirm the
    > 'truth' are dependent on the culture they live in." (Lila, 26)

    > msh says:
    > You can attempt to falsify a theory using any facts you want. I
    > don't see the problem. Unless you are mistaking cultural conventions for
    > facts. You know, one culture says it's a fact that an inch worm is really
    > only 2.54 centimeters long, so those guys on the other side of the pond
    > have got their facts all wrong.

    You seem to know what a "fact" is. That's the rub. Pirsig makes the point
    that the meaning of "fact" depends on your culture, i.e. is determined by
    what your culture says (and has taught you) as "fact." Same goes for
    "evidence," "proof," and other words pointing to those phenomenon one
    considers to be standards of truth. Western culture is pretty much locked
    into the scientific definition of "facts," beginning with reliance on
    experience (empiricism). But Pirsig points out, "Each culture presumes its
    beliefs correspond to some sort of external reality, but a geography of
    religious belief shows that this external reality can be just about any
    damn thing." (Lila, 26). As for your example of one inch equals 2.54
    centimeters, that's not an argument about facts but about words pointing
    to a culturally derived unit of measurement.

    So I ask. What is a fact? Would a Zen answer be different from a
    Westerner's?

    Platt

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