Re: Re[12]: MD DYNAMIC PRESSURE (?)

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Aug 24 2004 - 18:51:19 BST

  • Next message: David Morey: "Re: MD The individual in the MOQ"

    Hi

    guys, too much dq=flux, too much SQ=law and balanced dq/sq=creativity &
    capacity
    to climb up the levels, via patterns & creativity

    DM

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Ilya Korobkov" <korobkov_ilya@mail.ru>
    To: "Valuemetaphysics@aol.com" <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:18 AM
    Subject: Re[12]: MD DYNAMIC PRESSURE (?)

    > Hi Mark,
    >
    > Vac> Mark 22-8-04: ...Perhaps you would like to reflect upon
    > Vac> the Stagnation/Coherence/Chaos continuum a little more?
    >
    > I think hard on the subject Mark, and the more I think the less I seem to
    > understand, and the more weird looks the discussion itself...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Vac> Mark 22-8-04: Indeed. Static patterning protects from too much
    Dynamic
    > Vac> influence. What may be the optimum balance between openness and
    static protection?
    >
    > Protection OF WHAT, Mark? Static protection of static patterns? How
    > can static patterns protect themselves? They EMERGE out of nothingness
    > in the act of experience (DQ), don't they? And they do not become
    > independent of DQ upon emergence, do not "live their own life" - they
    > live as long as they are experienced, don't they? If so, what means
    > "openness of static patterns to DQ"? They cannot be closed to DQ by
    > definition! And cannot be MORE or LESS open to DQ - it just make no
    > sense to say so!
    >
    > Oh hell, my head is gonna blow up...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Vac> From The edge of chaos:
    > Vac> The sweet spot is postulated as a coherent state somewhere between
    these two
    > Vac> extremes. [Chaos and stagnation] At the sweet spot of Dynamic Quality
    (DQ), a
    > Vac> pattern is neither too static or unstable.
    >
    > What do you mean when you say the [static] pattern may be TOO static or
    > unstable? TOO static or unstable FOR WHAT? It seems to me the notion
    > of "TOO" staticness or unstableness implies patterns can behave NOT
    > the only right way. - Could it really be so? Could the things really
    > go not the right way?
    >
    > (P.S.: I mean, for things to go not the right way, there should exist
    > that "the only right way". And MOQ, as far as I know, doesn't
    > postulate it's existence.)
    >
    >
    >
    > Vac> Mark 22-8-04: I really do not believe you or i need another term
    Ilya,
    > Vac> "openness to DQ" may be rephrased, "patterned states open to DQ"
    because patterns
    > Vac> are the only things in the MOQ other than DQ. I think that is just
    fine. All
    > Vac> coherence does is take these, "patterned states open to DQ" and
    arranges them in
    > Vac> a continuum from Stagnation (Hardly open to DQ at all) through
    Coherence
    > Vac> (Harmonious openness to DQ) to Chaos (disruptive openness to DQ).
    >
    > I still cannot comprehend how you manage to unite concepts of
    > staticness/dynamicness ("openness to DQ") and coherence/incoherence
    > into one-dimensional picture. I see it as TWO-dimensional. The first
    > dimension is the relation of static pattern to DQ, the second - the
    > relation of static pattern to other static patterns.
    > With the latter dimention there seem to be no problem: we agreed that
    > the relationship between static patterns may well be described in
    > terms "coherence" - "incoherence".
    > With the former dimention I see big problems. I feel intuitively what
    > ought to be described but I cannot conceptualize it. The description of
    > static pattern as something separate and independent of DQ (it's
    > being "protected" or "open to DQ") seems absurd now. Trying to measure
    > "the intensity of experience", on the other hand, seems close to
    > trying to say something about DQ itself - and is wrong on THAT reason.
    > Maybe we should look closely not at patterns but AT THE PROCESS of
    emergence
    > and passing away of static patterns? We may say, for example, that in
    > some individuals the life span of static patterns is shorter then in
    > others, right? May be this way of desctiption IS a solution, Mark?
    > "The life span" approach...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Vac> Mark 22-8-04: See? We are doing better than perhaps you thought?
    > ...
    > Vac> I hope this helps, let us keep moving forward! ;)
    >
    > Thank you for moral support, Mark! :)
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Ilya
    >
    >
    >
    >
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