From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Aug 26 2004 - 19:02:11 BST
Platt: Excellent. The lesson of unintended consequences. (Promoters of an
intellect-controlled society, take note.)
What do you prefer, the most powerful decide, the richest,
toss a coin, or use intellect? I would accep that leaderdship
has a role and this needs extra qualities
dm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: MD Provocative statements
> Mel:
>
> > > -- Responses to Dynamic Quality are genetic
> > [...sounds like an adaptive principal, a reformulation
> > of a notion of evolution.]
>
> Perhaps I should have said, "Responses to DQ are inborn." Recall Pirsig's
> description of a baby responding to DQ.
>
> > > -- Sometimes the bad can be good.
> > [...the deep complexity of our interconnected universe
> > means we cannot precisely comprehend effect.]
>
> Excellent. The lesson of unintended consequences. (Promoters of an
> intellect-controlled society, take note.)
>
> > > -- Political correctness is a blight on intellect.
> > [...PC is a blight on anything.]
>
> Agree.
>
> > > -- Science isn't the last word on anything.
> > [...Science is a methodology to help guide us on
> > a certain type of journey, its fruits are ephemeral.]
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> > > -- Beauty is closely related to Dynamic Quality.
> > [...or at least our perception of it.]
>
> Do you distinguish between "perception of " and "experience of?" If so,
> what's the difference?
>
> > > -- To put philosophy in the service of any social organization is
> > > immoral.
> > [ Problematic Statement as it sits.
> > If one attempts to improve a social organization to maximise DQ,
then
> > the philosophy becomes a social philosophy which is moral over
what
> > preceded. However, if the philosophy seeks to maximise SQ or
promote
> > social devouring of intellect, then the social philosophy
> > is immoral and the act of so placing the philosophy is as well.]
>
> The full quote from Pirsig:
>
> "He wanted particularly- to see how much actual evidence there was for the
> statement that James's whole purpose was to "unite science and religion."
> That claim had turned him against James years ago, and he didn't like it
> any better now. When you start out with an axe like that to grind, it's
> almost guaranteed that you will conclude with something false. The
> statement seemed more like some philosophological simplification written
> by someone with a weak understanding of what philosophy is for. To put
> philosophy in the service of any social organization or any dogma is
> immoral. It's a lower form of evolution trying to devour a higher one."
> (Lila, 29)
>
> > > -- Helping others can cause misery.
> > [...the deep complexity of our interconnected social network
> > means we cannot precisely comprehend effect.]
>
> Excellent. The lesson of unintended consequences. (Promoters of an
> intellect-controlled society, take note.)
>
> > > -- Money is a measure of social values.
> > [...'A' measure, sometimes...]
>
> Agree.
>
> > > -- There is experience without subjects or objects.
> > [...experience is, subject and object are merely organizational
> > tools for abstracting experience and meaning.]
>
> Debatable. "Experience" suggests a subjective "experiencer."
>
> > > -- I think, therefore I pattern.
> > [...awareness is markedly experienced here, now, of thinking.]
>
> Unclear to me. Is "awareness" different than "experience?" Does awareness
> create patterns?
>
> > > -- The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
> > [...the fruits of effect are independent of origins, after the
fact.
> > Mona Lisa endures beyond DaVinci. true. The memory of the
> > dance endure beyond the curtain's fall. true. However, in an
> > ultimately reflexive way, biologically, for me, the hard muscled
> > young stud with the cheekbones didn't even survive into middle
age,
> > unless the mirror lies about the bald old fat guy who seems to
have
> > replaced his reflection ;-) ]
>
> Your body may deteriorate, but the beauty of the young stud is eternal.
>
> > > Anyone disagree with any of the above?
> > [How about another: Is meaning real?]
>
> The patterns we interpret as meaningful are real.
>
> Thanks for your responses, Mel.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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