Re: MD The individual in the MOQ

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Aug 26 2004 - 18:57:57 BST

  • Next message: David Morey: "Re: MD The individual in the MOQ"

    Paul:
    > I think the MOQ departs from Jaspers and Priday by referring to "the
    > Comprehensive" as Quality, as it regards "being," "God," and "Essence"
    > as empirically unverifiable intellectualisations rather than the
    > experience of Quality itself.
    >

    DM: I agree, quality avoids SOM and intellectualisation
    that starts to question the beyond of dasein experience.
    I think we need to accept that we intellectualise beyond
    this undivided quality. We can do this, I like the sacredness of god,
    the abstraction of being or be(com)ing, but essence sounds like
    static quality, or reductionism, or too anti-agency. Matter of taste.
    Maybe sometimes we can hear some echo of comprehensiveness
    beyond dasein, the limits of being a particular dasein, is there any
    more to say?

    But we also aim at this comprehensiveness in our intellectual stories of
    everything.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Paul Turner" < >
    To: < >
    Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:26 PM
    Subject: RE: MD The individual in the MOQ

    > Hi Ham
    >
    > Ham said:
    > At the risk of violating the rules here, may I suggest that chasing
    > around to find a logic that "permits" one conclusion over another is not
    > helpful when the goal is simply to explain a concept and its meaning.
    > Logic does not apply to undifferentiated Quality or Essence, anyway, and
    > its use to validate (or invalidate) a metaphysical scenario is a
    > distraction to understanding.
    >
    > Paul:
    > It was you, Ham, who stated that the idea that Quality can be the source
    > of itself is illogical, as if to invalidate it.
    >
    > However, to put the exchange in context, Scott and I have had a few
    > discussions about non-Aristotelian logic in the past, particularly
    > Nishida's Logic of Contradictory Identity. My comment about Indian Logic
    > in the post to you was a nod to those discussions; it wasn't a tactic to
    > distract you.
    >
    > Finally, as to your comments above, although I may agree that "logic
    > does not apply to undifferentiated Quality," it does not follow that its
    > use is always a distraction to an understanding. In fact, in my reply to
    > Scott I have provided an example, whether it is faithful to Nagarjuna or
    > not, of how a logic of negation can be applied to systems of philosophic
    > mysticism such as the MOQ. Scott has done something similar, and
    > probably better, with Nishida in the past.
    >
    > Ham said:
    > Jaspers concludes this section with the statement: "Suffice it to say
    > that
    > the Comprehensive, conceived as being itself, is called transcendence
    > (God),
    > and the world, while as that which we ourselves are it is called
    > being-there, consciousness, mind, and existence." I depart from Jaspers
    > only with respect to his definition of the Comprehensive (Essence) as
    > "being", as I regard beingness as an "intellectualized" property of
    > experienced objects rather than the nature of Essence itself.
    >
    > Paul:
    > I think the MOQ departs from Jaspers and Priday by referring to "the
    > Comprehensive" as Quality, as it regards "being," "God," and "Essence"
    > as empirically unverifiable intellectualisations rather than the
    > experience of Quality itself.
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >
    >
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